From jcw@equi4.com Wed Jul 10 05:28:48 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AASla07970 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 05:28:47 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: starkit Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:28:18 +0200 Message-Id: <20020710102818.12546@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Welcome Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Welcome - this is just a test to check that things work. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 10 09:16:35 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AEGZa20088 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 09:16:35 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.10.2/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6AEGS300416 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6AEGSD05999; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:16:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020710101628.AAB5990@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] 9th Annual Tcl Conference registration now open Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The Tcl'2002 Conference, September 16-20, in Vancouver, BC, Canada, is now taking registrations. Tcl'2002 is a forum to: - bring together Tcl/Tk researchers and practitioners - publish and present current work involving Tcl/Tk - learn about the latest developments in Tcl/Tk - plan for future Tcl/Tk related developments The conference covers a full week, with two days of Tutorial Sessions and three days of Technical Sessions. Space is limited so register early! For more information, see . -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Wed Jul 10 10:53:08 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AFr6a25219; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 10:53:07 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: announce , Starkit Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:52:55 +0200 Message-Id: <20020710155255.25270@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack kick-off Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Starkits and Starpacks are two new names for existing concepts - "scripted documents" and "custom tclkits", respectively. Those last two terms are now obsolete, finished, dead. A quick summary, taken from http://wiki.tcl.tk/starkit: >A Starkit is a single file packaging of Tcl scripts, platform specific >compiled code and application data; designed to facilitate simple >deployment of cross platform applications. The name comes from STandAlone >Runtime. > >Starkits are interpreted using TclKit - a single file Tcl/Tk interpreter. >You will need a version of TclKit for each platform that you want to run >a Starkit on. Have a look at the TclKit download area where there are >versions for over a dozen platforms. > >A Starpack is a single (platform specific) executable file containing >both TclKit and a Starkit. They are useful when you want to deploy a >single executable for an application. Starpacks can be built ON any >platform supporting TclKit, FOR any platform supporting TclKit. > >The Starkit home page is http://www.equi4.com/starkit/ The runtime for all this is TclKit (now based on Tcl/Tk 8.4b1). The use and construction of starkits and starpacks has been simplified quite a bit in the past weeks, so if you're using sdx.bin, or kitten.bin, make sure to visit the above website and download the latest versions (several URLs have changed). In a day or two, I'll announce on comp.lang.tcl - but it should all be ready and working right now. Please test and yell if anything doesn't work as expected or if something on the website is not clear enough. There's bound to be some rough edges as everything transitions to the new names and setup... please help get things right. Somewhat tangential to this topic: if you're into wiki's, there's a new wiki *about* wikit development, at . It's still being set up - and, being a wiki, anyone can help do so. -jcw From vince.darley@eurobios.com Wed Jul 10 11:06:49 2002 Received: from smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.13]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AG6na26152 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:06:49 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost3.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SJzK-000Loi-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:06:46 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020710170520.01b762e0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:06:46 +0100 To: Starkit From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack kick-off In-Reply-To: <20020710155255.25270@triqs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 05:52 PM 7/10/2002 +0200, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: >Starkits and Starpacks are two new names for existing concepts - >"scripted documents" and "custom tclkits", respectively. Those last two >terms are now obsolete, finished, dead. > >A quick summary, taken from http://wiki.tcl.tk/starkit I don't see any reference to where I can download a starpack on that site! So it's a bit hard to get started. cheers, Vince. From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 10 11:16:48 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AGGma26762 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:16:48 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.10.2/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6AGGf313400 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6AGGfu07794; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020710121641.AAB7785@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack kick-off In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020710170520.01b762e0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> of Wed, 10 Jul 2002 17:06:46 +0100 To: Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: One thing I discovered - when I visited and saw kitten.kit listed, I downloaded it - and found that it required a different tclkit than I had installed (mine was about a week old). -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Wed Jul 10 11:32:59 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AGWwa27848 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:32:58 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack kick-off Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:32:41 +0200 Message-Id: <20020710163242.6412@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020710121641.AAB7785@cas.org> References: <20020710121641.AAB7785@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >One thing I discovered - when I visited >and saw kitten.kit listed, I downloaded it - and found that it required >a different tclkit than I had installed (mine was about a week old). Yes... there's no way around this. Starkits no longer do a "package require scripdoc", they now do "package require starkit" (and for a reason: internally, several things have changed in the startup). So while old scripted docs still will work, everything built with the new version of sdx requires a new tclkit. I guess I should put a comment somewhere that in the tclkit you use puts $tcl_platform(vfs) must return "200207.004" or larger. This is exactly what I meant by rough edges... I see no way to avoid this. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 10 11:46:52 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6AGkpa28744 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:46:51 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.10.2/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6AGkj322478 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6AGkj608504; Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 12:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020710124644.AAB8488@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack kick-off In-Reply-To: <20020710163242.6412@triqs.com> of Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:32:41 +0200 To: Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: If there's anything rough about this it would just be figuring out what needs said. It looks to me like the starkit wiki is a read only affair - is that right? Just wondering. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Thu Jul 11 05:26:27 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6BAQQa08887 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:26:27 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:23:10 +0200 Message-Id: <20020711102310.26519@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Getting started Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The issue has come up in private email as to whether the new starkit/ starpack terms are easy to get started with. It's too confusing, I'm being told. I was under the impression that either of the following URLs were quite clear for newcomers (mostly Tcl people for now, I'd assume): http://wiki.tcl.tk/starkit http://www.equi4.com/starkit/ And I know some people reacted very positively, but now I'm wondering whether it's good enough, really. I'm about to announce starkits on comp.lang.tcl, but if there is a way to reduce confusion further, *now* is the time to get it right - i.e. *before* people start reading and browsing about all this. Do the new starkit web pages need to be simplified, or extended with specific instructions, or more cross-linked, or simply re-ordered, or perhaps merged further? Please let me know - I'm afraid that by now I'm unable to reflect more on this. This is a one-time opportunity to get a clear message out, and help people start off with a suitable model in their minds of what this is all about. -jcw From steve@digital-smarties.com Thu Jul 11 05:31:44 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@i219-066.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6BAVha09145 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:31:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 5996 invoked by uid 8); 11 Jul 2002 10:31:41 -0000 Received: from ibook.digital-smarties.com (192.168.1.3, claiming to be "[192.168.1.3]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdm5LKEn; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:31:30 EDT From: Steve Landers To: Jean-Claude Wippler , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Getting started Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:31:28 +0800 Message-Id: <20020711103128.13778@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <20020711102310.26519@triqs.com> References: <20020711102310.26519@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC, >The issue has come up in private email as to whether the new starkit/ >starpack terms are easy to get started with. It's too confusing, I'm >being told. May I ask who said this? Steve From steve@digital-smarties.com Thu Jul 11 05:32:44 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@i219-066.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6BAWha09227 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:32:43 -0500 Received: (qmail 6015 invoked by uid 8); 11 Jul 2002 10:32:41 -0000 Received: from ibook.digital-smarties.com (192.168.1.3, claiming to be "[192.168.1.3]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpd6j6pel; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:32:39 EDT From: Steve Landers To: Jean-Claude Wippler , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Getting started Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:32:37 +0800 Message-Id: <20020711103237.25013@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <20020711103128.13778@mail.digital-smarties.com> References: <20020711103128.13778@mail.digital-smarties.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC >>The issue has come up in private email as to whether the new starkit/ >>starpack terms are easy to get started with. It's too confusing, I'm >>being told. > >May I ask who said this? I should qualify this - what type of person? A person familiar with SD's or someone coming new to the concepts. Just trying to get a handle on the issue? Steve From vince.darley@eurobios.com Thu Jul 11 05:39:59 2002 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6BAdwa09689 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:39:58 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17SbLs-0003jw-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:39:12 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020711113305.029014d0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:39:12 +0100 To: Starkit From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] Getting started In-Reply-To: <20020711103128.13778@mail.digital-smarties.com> References: <20020711102310.26519@triqs.com> <20020711102310.26519@triqs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 06:31 PM 7/11/2002 +0800, Steve Landers wrote: >May I ask who said this? It was me. The speed and ease with which one can go to the starkit main web page and get a tclkit and one impressive starkit on your hard drive (and running), is not ideal, IMHO. Here's an excerpt from my email to JCW: >>> Nearly. Here's my problem. I go to http://www.equi4.com/starkit/ and I see a bunch of links, so, I click on the first one ('Purpose'), and I can swiftly get down a tangled web of very detailed information. Hopefully I am sensible and just go 'back' to the toplevel and click on the next link ("Where to find starkits"), and I get whisked away to an archive with millions of starkits --- all very impressive, but rather bewildering and information overloading. Hopefully I go 'back' again (twice), and then click on "How to use a starkit", that hopefully takes me to download a tclkit but then I have to decide to go back and find a starkit. But which one? There's just so much information there. I think you really should add an "idiots' guide", or "getting started" page which doesn't overload you with information. On the very first page add a link near the top saying "Never used a starkit? Click to test drive one right now" or something like that... >>> Once people are over that first hurdle, I think the website is very very good. cheers, Vince. From jcw@equi4.com Thu Jul 11 05:50:36 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6BAoZa10596 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:50:35 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Getting started Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 12:49:59 +0200 Message-Id: <20020711104959.8806@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020711113305.029014d0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020711113305.029014d0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Vince Darley wrote: >Nearly. Here's my problem. I go to http://www.equi4.com/starkit/ and I >see a bunch of links, so, I click on the first one ('Purpose'), and I can >swiftly get down a tangled web of very detailed information. Hopefully I >am sensible and just go 'back' to the toplevel and click on the next link >("Where to find starkits"), and I get whisked away to an archive with >millions of starkits --- all very impressive, but rather bewildering and [...] Bingo, it took me a while to see this but you're 100% right. There's also the fact that wikit has no sidebar, so there's no way to keep some sort of global context on the page. I guess a "quick start" of some sort with precise instructions can indeed solve this. Plus a more careful ordering of links, and perhaps more cross-linking at the end of pages. So the next question is: what example to use? Preferably pure Tcl, so it works on any platform. How about Richard Suchenwirth's zoomable world map? -jcw From steve@digital-smarties.com Thu Jul 11 05:52:45 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@i219-066.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6BAqia10807 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 05:52:44 -0500 Received: (qmail 6098 invoked by uid 8); 11 Jul 2002 10:52:42 -0000 Received: from ibook.digital-smarties.com (192.168.1.3, claiming to be "[192.168.1.3]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdsVOBmN; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 06:52:39 EDT From: Steve Landers To: Vince Darley , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Getting started Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 18:52:37 +0800 Message-Id: <20020711105237.3956@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020711113305.029014d0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020711113305.029014d0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Vince, >There's just so much information there. I think you really should add an >"idiots' guide", or "getting started" page which doesn't overload you with >information. ... >Once people are over that first hurdle, I think the website is very very good. OK - I see where you are coming from. To paraphrase - it's not a fundamental issue about content/concepts but rather presentation. No arguments from me :-) Steve From mike.collins@riley.army.mil Thu Jul 11 13:27:13 2002 Received: from rilex06.riley.army.mil (emh1.riley.army.mil [144.246.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6BIRCa13740 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:27:12 -0500 Received: by emh1.riley.army.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:25:24 -0500 Message-ID: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EE0@rilex11.riley.army.mil> From: "Collins, Mike DAC DOIM" To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 13:30:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_000_01C22909.1304A070" Subject: [Starkit] Starkits or SD's for retail distribution. Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_000_01C22909.1304A070 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C22909.1304A070" ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22909.1304A070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I got a hint from Cameron Laird that TclKit has a way of using an encryption-key to either allow, or not, execution of a SD, that was before I read about StarKits. Same question still applies. Commercial retail distribution and protecting the source code? Or any way to not allow it to be unwrapped?. Michael E. Collins DOIM, Senior Network Tech. 200 Henry Ave. Ft. Riley, KS 66442 mike.collins@riley.army.mil Phone: 785-239-3662 DSN: 856-3662 Fax: 785-239-0555 Online Fax: 785-239-6660 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C22909.1304A070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I = got a hint=20 from Cameron Laird that TclKit has a way of using an encryption-key to = either=20 allow, or not, execution of a SD, that was before I read about=20 StarKits.
 
Same question=20 still applies. Commercial retail distribution and protecting the source = code? Or=20 any way to not allow it to be unwrapped?.
 
 
 
Michael E. Collins
DOIM, Senior Network = Tech.
200 Henry Ave.
Ft. Riley, KS 66442
mike.collins@riley.army.mil<= /A>
Phone: = 785-239-3662         DSN:=20 856-3662
Fax:=20 785-239-0555          =   =20 Online Fax:=20 785-239-6660
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Mark Roseman To: starkit@equi4.com In-Reply-To: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EE0@rilex11.riley.army.mil> Message-Id: <78148611-94FE-11D6-97C0-0003939931E6@markroseman.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g6BIkEa15352 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'd posted this on comp.lang.tcl, but it might have got buried in the thread. Here's an easy way to protect your sources - use TclPro's "procomp" utility to generate byte-compiled versions of your code. Then pack those into the StarKit, as well as the "tbcload" shared libraries for any platforms you want to support. Load the appropriate tbcload on startup, and then source in your byte-compiled code. Mark On Thursday, July 11, 2002, at 02:30 PM, Collins, Mike DAC DOIM wrote: > I got a hint from Cameron Laird that TclKit has a way of using an > encryption-key to either allow, or not, execution of a SD, that was > before I read about StarKits. > > Same question still applies. Commercial retail distribution and > protecting the source code? Or any way to not allow it to be unwrapped?. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Roseman mark@markroseman.com http://www.markroseman.com From eduardo@bfi.com.cu Thu Jul 11 19:08:17 2002 Received: from astaro.bfi.com.cu ([63.170.172.252]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6C08Ea32653 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:08:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 22674 invoked by uid 505); 11 Jul 2002 20:19:35 -0000 Received: from eduardo@bfi.com.cu by astaro.bfi.com.cu with qmail-scanner- http://www.astaro.com (Version 3.0build 135|Known records: 56050. . Clean.); 11/07/2002 20:19:28 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.bfi.com.cu) (172.16.0.4) by astaro.bfi.com.cu with SMTP; 11 Jul 2002 20:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 486 invoked by uid 505); 12 Jul 2002 00:07:58 -0000 Received: from eduardo@bfi.com.cu by mail.bfi.com.cu with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 1.770131 secs); 12 Jul 2002 00:07:58 -0000 Received: from segbfi.bfi.com.cu (HELO bfi.com.cu) (10.1.0.4) by 0 with SMTP; 12 Jul 2002 00:07:56 -0000 Received: from SEGBFI/SpoolDir by bfi.com.cu (Mercury 1.47); 11 Jul 02 20:07:56 -0500 Received: from SpoolDir by SEGBFI (Mercury 1.47); 11 Jul 02 20:07:54 -0500 From: "Eduardo Rodriguez Abreu" Organization: Banco Financiero Internacional S.A To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 20:07:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v3.12a) Message-ID: <68C51A175A6@bfi.com.cu> Subject: [Starkit] Not found tk command Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello Tcl'ers, I have a problem migrating an application to a new .kit project. In fact didn't find a tkTabToWindow command. I'm using tclkit-win32.upx.exe to Win NT platform. Any suggestion about this ? Thanks in advance. Ed From jcw@equi4.com Thu Jul 11 19:15:54 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6C0Fra00498 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:15:54 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Not found tk command Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:15:00 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712001500.25039@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Eduardo Rodriguez Abreu wrote: > Hello Tcl'ers, I have a problem migrating an application to a new >.kit project. In fact didn't find a tkTabToWindow command. > I'm using tclkit-win32.upx.exe to Win NT platform. > Any suggestion about this ? (This is probably going to become a FAQ) Have you done a "package require Tk"? -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Thu Jul 11 19:22:57 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6C0Mua00898 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 19:22:56 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkits or SD's for retail distribution. Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 02:22:01 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712002201.29659@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EE0@rilex11.riley.army.mil> References: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EE0@rilex11.riley.army.mil> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Collins, Mike DAC DOIM wrote: >I got a hint from Cameron Laird that TclKit has a way of using an >encryption-key to either allow, or not, execution of a SD, that was before I >read about StarKits. > >Same question still applies. Commercial retail distribution and protecting >the source code? Or any way to not allow it to be unwrapped?. Until Mark Roseman's very recent success with tbcloader, the best answer I could give was essentially that you can include an extension such as Blowfish to encrypt, and perhaps another C extension to bury the key and eval a source script given to it. Nothing is failsafe, but the above approach has been used in a few projects. Now that bytecodes seem to work and be doable (not sure how easy it is to get all the pieces working), that is clearly a better scheme to try to get right. With bytecodes, a few things that are in source code simply no longer exist in the deployed system (comments, local var names) - so even reverse compilation would be partial at best. -jcw From dgporter@erols.com Thu Jul 11 22:07:50 2002 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6C37oa04616; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:07:50 -0500 Received: from 66-44-2-148.s656.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.2.148] helo=there) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #5) id 17Sqmb-0000yq-00; Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:07:50 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Don Porter Reply-To: dgporter@erols.com To: Jean-Claude Wippler , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Not found tk command Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:03:33 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <20020712001500.25039@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020712001500.25039@triqs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Eduardo Rodriguez Abreu wrote: > >.kit project. In fact didn't find a tkTabToWindow command. Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > (This is probably going to become a FAQ) Yes. > Have you done a "package require Tk"? ...but not that one. Starkit is based on Tcl/Tk 8.4. Tk 8.3 defined a private command [tkTabToWindow]. Tk 8.4 no longer does. It was never a public interface, and when you use private interfaces you risk getting caught by changes like this. Quick workaround. Add this to your script: tk::unsupported::ExposePrivateCommand tkTabToWindow That will restore the existence of the [tkTabToWindow] command. If you've used other private commands you will need to do the same for each of them. Longer term, you should re-write your script so that it doesn't make use of Tk's private commands. If you find that this is too limiting, and access to the private commands is necessary, then get to work making a TIP proposal for Tk to provide that functionality in a public way: http://purl.org/tcl/tip/ -- | Don Porter dgporter@erols.com | | "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!" | | -- Adam West as BATMAN | |______________________________________________________________________| From guenther.fischer@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de Fri Jul 12 03:37:53 2002 Received: from meg.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de (mail@meg.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de [134.109.132.57]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6C8bra14836 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 03:37:53 -0500 Received: from pat.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de ([134.109.132.143] ident=mail) by meg.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de with esmtp (Exim 4.04) id 17Svw0-0007Bi-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:37:52 +0200 Received: from bruford.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de ([134.109.132.46]) by pat.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 17Svvz-0005UV-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:37:51 +0200 Received: from localhost (fischer@localhost) by bruford.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6C8bph28988 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:37:51 +0200 X-Authentication-Warning: bruford.hrz.tu-chemnitz.de: fischer owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:37:51 +0200 (MEST) From: Guenther Fischer To: starkit@equi4.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, first of all thank's to JWC - great work. And now my questions: 1. in kitten I found so many extensions: - what is the best way to find documentations about it, how to use it, examples ... 2. if I want to use only one ore two packages from it ind my own warped file - what to do: sdx unwrap kitten.kit cp -r kitten.kit/lib/ myprog.vfs/lib and only a package require in my script? 3. I want to use jpeg's in my application - there was some trouble with using libjpeg in older tclkit's Is there a better chance now? Can we put it into kitten? Thank's -- ~Guenther Fischer From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 05:29:16 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CATFa19572 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 05:29:15 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:28:32 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712102832.21591@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Guenther Fischer wrote: >1. in kitten I found so many extensions: > - what is the best way to find documentations about it, > how to use it, examples ... Ah, yes, I knew someone would bring it up... For now, all I can suggest is to go to the web, google, etc. Kitten is a proof-of-concept package. It works fine, but it was mostly done to find out what technical issues there would be (not many, in fact). There are plans to address things like docs, demos, examples, test suites - but for now it's not much more than that. >2. if I want to use only one ore two packages from it ind my > own warped file - what to do: > sdx unwrap kitten.kit > cp -r kitten.kit/lib/ myprog.vfs/lib > and only a package require in my script? Exactly. >3. I want to use jpeg's in my application - there was some trouble > with using libjpeg in older tclkit's > Is there a better chance now? Can we put it into kitten? The trouble has always been loading shared libs which depend on other shared libs AFAIK. That can be worked around by doing things like: catch { load /some/path/libjpeg.so } Which will fail but leaves the lib loaded anyway - after that other extensions (I assume Img) can be loaded and should link properly. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Fri Jul 12 06:08:51 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CB8oa21181 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:08:51 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6CB8iO21057 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6CB8il18570; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:08:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020712070843.AAB18559@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... In-Reply-To: <20020712102832.21591@triqs.com> of Fri, 12 Jul 2002 12:28:32 +0200 To: starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>3. I want to use jpeg's in my application - there was some trouble >> with using libjpeg in older tclkit's >> Is there a better chance now? Can we put it into kitten? > >The trouble has always been loading shared libs which depend on other >shared libs AFAIK. That can be worked around by doing things like: > catch { load /some/path/libjpeg.so } >Which will fail but leaves the lib loaded anyway - after that other >extensions (I assume Img) can be loaded and should link properly. I don't recall hearing about this. Is this something that occurs when shared library dependencies are not expressed at link time, or is it a general problem with dynamic library loading? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 06:24:46 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CBOia21958 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:24:44 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:23:54 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712112355.19459@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020712070843.AAB18559@cas.org> References: <20020712070843.AAB18559@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >>The trouble has always been loading shared libs which depend on other >>shared libs AFAIK. That can be worked around by doing things like: >> catch { load /some/path/libjpeg.so } >>Which will fail but leaves the lib loaded anyway - after that other >>extensions (I assume Img) can be loaded and should link properly. > >I don't recall hearing about this. Is this something that occurs when >shared library dependencies are not expressed at link time, or is it >a general problem with dynamic library loading? It's an issue that only rears it head with VFS loading: - extension A needs shlib B (not necessarily a Tcl ext) - normally, the dynamic loader "just does it" - in VFS, load of A means: copy to temp real file, *then* load - unfortunately, VFS has no idea that A needs B - so when the dynamic loaded gets A, it can't find B The workaround is based on the fact that "load anything.so" will fail if it's not a Tcl extension, but the shared lib will be left loaded. So what you do to force things is: - "catch { load B }" - it fails, but B does end up loaded - "load A" - not succeeds, because B is present and resolving syms In both lines above, VFS will copy to temp, load, and clean up. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Fri Jul 12 06:32:46 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CBWka22385 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:32:46 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6CBWeO25499 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6CBWds18944; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:32:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:32:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020712073239.AAB18935@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... In-Reply-To: <20020712070843.AAB18559@cas.org> of Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:08:44 -0400 (EDT) To: starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At least on SunOS, dlopen() will search the directory for all dependencies that a shared library has. I would think that Windows does something similar. If all the .so files were written out before the first dlopen, would that take care of things? It might mean that one had to 'register' all the .so files during the creation of the starkit so that tclkit knew where they all were. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 06:48:12 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CBmBa23177 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 06:48:11 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 13:47:18 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712114718.26907@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020712073239.AAB18935@cas.org> References: <20020712073239.AAB18935@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >At least on SunOS, dlopen() will search the directory for all dependencies >that a shared library has. I would think that Windows does something >similar. If all the .so files were written out before the first dlopen, >would that take care of things? It might mean that one had to 'register' >all the .so files during the creation of the starkit so that tclkit knew >where they all were. That would be an option. But it would also mean writing all of them out, because one does not know which depends on which. Then again, if that dependency were explicit, it might indeed work nicely. perhaps a global array with entries: if load A, then please make sure B and C are on the disk too? Yep, might simplify the logic. It means that one could refine existing pkgIndex.tcl packages, such that when trying to satisfy a "package require" it'd define such dep's, then source/load. Needs a bit more thought with multi-platform, bet then again so does the load mechanism itself. -jcw From mark@markroseman.com Fri Jul 12 07:07:12 2002 Received: from fep8.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CC7Ba24188 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:07:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (d141-166-106.home.cgocable.net [24.141.166.106]) by fep8.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7FAC3714; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:07:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:07:10 -0400 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkits or SD's for retail distribution. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: Nicolas Boretos From: Mark Roseman In-Reply-To: <3D2E8B6A.9080706@maich.gr> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Friday, July 12, 2002, at 03:55 AM, Nicolas Boretos wrote: > Is there any tbcload available for the Mac? Last I checked (year and a > half)there was not. you bet, see http://sourceforge.net/projects/tclpro i've been using the os x version here. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Roseman mark@markroseman.com http://www.markroseman.com From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 07:50:10 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CCo9a26498 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 07:50:09 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit, kitten, ... Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:49:07 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712124907.1942@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: To follow up on my own post: Guenther Fischer wrote: >2. if I want to use only one ore two packages from it ind my > own warped file - what to do: > sdx unwrap kitten.kit > cp -r kitten.kit/lib/ myprog.vfs/lib > > and only a package require in my script? You can probably do it even easier from Tcl nowadays (untested): source kitten.kit file copy kitten.kit/lib/ myprog.vfs/lib The logic being that "source kitten.kit" leaves it VFS-mounted. So from within Tcl you can do a recursive file copy. -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 10:57:24 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CFvNa04604; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 10:57:23 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Metakit , Starkit Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 17:55:39 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712155539.13891@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Away 19-7 through 20-8 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just a little note to say that I'll be away from July 19th through August 20th. Arrangements are being made to take care of the basics, like website access emergencies, but for a while you'll be far more likely to find me on faraway beaches, mountains, treetops, deserts, and seas... than on the net :) -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Fri Jul 12 15:55:41 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CKtfa21993 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:55:41 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6CKsnn26934 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:54:58 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:55:41 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C229BC.9321C6D0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Starkit] TclKit crashes on NT Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C229BC.9321C6D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I *think* this is the proper place for tclKit questions? If not, just point me elsewhere... I am finding it quite easy to generate "crash on exit" issues with the latest tclKit (for tcl 8.4b1 containing mk4tcl version 2.4.7). Now, these aren't serious issues as they seem to be caused only by my misuse of some of the mk4tcl commands, but should I be getting on-exit crashes? As an example, from time to time I tend to reference a view by it's name (like "user") instead of its path (like "db.user"). If I do this: mk::view info user instead of this: mk::view info db.user nothing is returned - including an error of any sort. I can go about my business OK, but when I exit, I am presented with the dreaded Dr. Watson error dialog stating that "An application error has occurred and an application error log is being generated - tclkit-win32.up.exe - access violation". I can reproduce this simply by opening a new database, creating a view, (incorrectly) using the mk::view info command (as above), and exiting. I think other "misuses" also cause similar problems, but this one was easily reproduced. Also, these aren't unique to the latest tclkit, the NT version has had this problem since I have used it - (for about 1 year or so?). What do you think? Thanks, Jeff Godfrey Optimation USA (800) 523-4744 jgodfrey@optinest.com ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C229BC.9321C6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I = *think* this is=20 the proper place for tclKit questions?  If not, just point me=20 elsewhere...
 
I am = finding it=20 quite easy to generate "crash on exit" issues with the latest = tclKit  (for=20 tcl 8.4b1 containing mk4tcl version 2.4.7).  Now, these aren't = serious=20 issues as they seem to be caused only by my misuse of some of the mk4tcl = commands, but should I be getting on-exit crashes?  As an example, = from=20 time to time I tend to reference a view by it's name (like "user") = instead of=20 its path (like "db.user").
 
If I = do=20 this:
 
mk::view info=20 user
 
instead of=20 this:
 
mk::view info=20 db.user
 
nothing is returned=20 - including an error of any sort.  I can go about my business OK, = but when=20 I exit, I am presented with the dreaded Dr. Watson error dialog stating = that "An=20 application error has occurred and an application error log is being=20 generated  - tclkit-win32.up.exe - access = violation".
 
I can = reproduce this=20 simply by opening a new database, creating a view, (incorrectly) using = the=20 mk::view info command (as above), and exiting.
 
I = think other=20 "misuses" also cause similar problems, but this one was easily = reproduced. =20 Also, these aren't unique to the latest tclkit, the NT version has had = this=20 problem since I have used it - (for about 1 year or so?).  What do = you=20 think?
 
Thanks,

Jeff Godfrey
Optimation USA
(800)=20 523-4744
jgodfrey@optinest.com =

 

 
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C229BC.9321C6D0-- From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 12 16:21:47 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6CLLja23325 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 2002 16:21:46 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] TclKit crashes on NT Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 23:21:25 +0200 Message-Id: <20020712212125.32601@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: >I *think* this is the proper place for tclKit questions? If not, just point >me elsewhere... Perfect spot, as far as I'm concerned. >I am finding it quite easy to generate "crash on exit" issues with the >latest tclKit (for tcl 8.4b1 containing mk4tcl version 2.4.7). Now, these >aren't serious issues as they seem to be caused only by my misuse of some of >the mk4tcl commands, but should I be getting on-exit crashes? As an >example, from time to time I tend to reference a view by it's name (like >"user") instead of its path (like "db.user"). > >If I do this: > >mk::view info user > >instead of this: > >mk::view info db.user > >nothing is returned - including an error of any sort. I can go about my >business OK, but when I exit, I am presented with the dreaded Dr. Watson >error dialog stating that "An application error has occurred and an >application error log is being generated - tclkit-win32.up.exe - access >violation". Thanks, you have found a bug which is probably easily fixed. Hmm, this delayed behavior might explain quite a few crashes in the past, that would make this a really good catch. >I can reproduce this simply by opening a new database, creating a view, >(incorrectly) using the mk::view info command (as above), and exiting. Will look into it. >I think other "misuses" also cause similar problems, but this one was easily >reproduced. Also, these aren't unique to the latest tclkit, the NT version >has had this problem since I have used it - (for about 1 year or so?). What >do you think? Please post more of these whenever you can. They are bugs in error handling, not quite as critical, but extremely useful to get right. A crash caused by scripts is a booboo in my book. -jcw From will@wjduquette.com Sat Jul 13 10:54:10 2002 Received: from swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6DFsAa26923 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 10:54:10 -0500 Received: from pool0053.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.226.53] helo=duquette.wjduquette.com) by swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17TPDl-00001v-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 08:54:09 -0700 Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020713155857.030c7920@mail.wjduquette.com> X-Sender: duquette@mail.wjduquette.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 15:59:22 +0000 To: "starkit-equi4.com" From: Will Duquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Starkit] SDX/Startool vs. All-In-One Tclkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Howdy! I've been discussing a few issues with Jean-Claude, and he asked if I'd bring them to the mailing list. To begin, I suggested that a better name for SDX would be "Startool", that being the thing you use to create Starkits and Starpacks. He didn't disagree, but passed along some comments from somebody else suggesting that SDX should go away altogether; the functionality should be rolled into Tclkit instead. I have some concerns about that, mostly involving the use of Tclkit/Tclkitsh as a drop-in replacement for wish/tclsh. That seems good to me. If SDX is wrapped up in Tclkit, that will affect the command line, and might hinder this. For example, JCW suggested that "Tclkit -wrap" might invoke the SDX functionality. Question: wish normally reads a bunch of X11 options from the command line before the script gets a chance at them. Does Tclkit do this? And if so, when? When you say "package require Tk"? I presume it doesn't do this if you're using it run a non-GUI script. With wish, it's always been the case that Tk gets first crack at the command line. With tclsh, that's not the case. If I'm writing a non-GUI app as a Starkit (and I could easily deliver Expand that way) then I want Expand to have first crack at the command line. So, in a nutshell, I'm concerned about the affect on the invocation semantics of having the SDX functionality delivered in this way. It might not, practically speaking be a problem, in which case I'd drop my objections. Will Duquette --------------------------------------------------- Will Duquette | Jane Duquette will@wjduquette.com | jane@wjduquette.com --------------------------------------------------- Ex Libris Book Reviews -- http://www.wjduquette.com From jcw@equi4.com Sat Jul 13 12:56:47 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6DHuga29255 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 2002 12:56:43 -0500 From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "starkit-equi4.com" Subject: Re: [Starkit] SDX/Startool vs. All-In-One Tclkit Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:54:52 +0200 Message-Id: <20020713175452.1377@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020713155857.030c7920@mail.wjduquette.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020713155857.030c7920@mail.wjduquette.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Will Duquette wrote: [...] >For example, JCW suggested that "Tclkit -wrap" might invoke the SDX >functionality. My preference that a tclkit without args do something other than bring up an interactive tcl session is that this does not work well for end-users. In the case of 2-file deployment (a starkit + tclkit), launching that second one, say by clicking on the wrong file, even just accidentally, creates a support issue ("what do I do now?"). It's not as far-fetched as it seems - an entire company, i.e. Apple, was built on the concept of *not* having a command line in end user contexts. Even today, Mac OSX (which is Unix) buries the command shell in a "Utilities" directory. Even just having tclkit complain and exit when launched without args would be greatly preferable, from where I stand. The fact that I haven't done it yet, is mostly because there have been more ideas on what to make it do on startup, and until that is sorted out, I'd rather not close off any avenues. Keep in mind that starkits, although now presented to the Tcl community, are really aimed far far further - I expect that perhaps a year from now, there will be tons of packages distributed to the masses with this sort of technology inside (simply because Tcl/Tk can be such an effective way to build so many things). It's already happening. The success of this may never become apparent, because the whole point is to *hide* Tcl from end users. Do you care who manufactured the parts of your car engine? I don't, I buy a car as a brand - it's under-the-hood, and I'm grateful. It'll be "Tcl Inside", and having a Tcl prompt pop up is the last thing many of us would want to see, I expect. I have to admit that the relevance of all this is relative, since starpacks are one way to get rid of the whole issue. So much for this micro-rant :) The other argument, which a few others have brought up, is that getting tclkit and then having to figure out where to get sdx (Startool *is* a nice name, btw) just adds to the hassle. As time passes, misplacing sdx on one's local disk may again become a minor issue. If at least wrapping is all-in-one, it'd cover the key usage scenario for developers. One could make a case that unwrapping should *not* be part of tclkit, btw. >Question: wish normally reads a bunch of X11 options from the command line >before the script gets a chance at them. Does Tclkit do this? And if so, >when? When you say "package require Tk"? I presume it doesn't do this if >you're using it run a non-GUI script. I think it does this when "package require Tk" is executed. >So, in a nutshell, I'm concerned about the affect on the invocation semantics >of having the SDX functionality delivered in this way. It might not, >practically speaking be a problem, in which case I'd drop my objections. Note that your may well have pointed to the solution for all this. An embedded sdx-type function such as "-wrap" does not need a GUI, it just wraps and exits. So the two scenarios can probably coexist without any problem at all. Last point to note is that the whole issue of "-display" options being gobbled up by Tk_Init is largely untested. TclKit's startup is still a bit rough, and may need bug-fixing to get everything right. Once it is decided what that is :) -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Mon Jul 15 05:06:10 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6FA69a05294 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:06:09 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6FA62O14030 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6FA62U27408; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:06:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 06:06:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020715060602.AAB27374@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] SDX/Startool vs. All-In-One Tclkit In-Reply-To: <20020713175452.1377@triqs.com> of Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:54:52 +0200 To: Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I myself find access to a tcl interpreter in some easy form critical, since under MacOS 7, that's the only way so far I've been successful in getting Tcl applications to launch - start a tclkit, wait for a while until tclkit gets loaded and running, then at the tcl prompt source in the application. I also find myself using the tclkit interactive prompt on Windows to get things done on a regular basis and I occasionally test out tcl frags from comp.lang.tcl via my unix tclkit. So I sure would not want the ability to get to this to disappear altogether. And I know that's not being proposed - just that the way to get to the prompt change. If the command line interface to tclkit is going to evolve, perhaps adding a -console option or something is possible (with that being the default on a Mac). -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From nicolasb@maich.gr Mon Jul 15 05:25:40 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6FAPda08257 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 05:25:39 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Mon Jul 15 13:51:40 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D32A3C7.1060808@maich.gr> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:28:23 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry W. Virden" CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] SDX/Startool vs. All-In-One Tclkit References: <20020715060602.AAB27374@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > I myself find access to a tcl interpreter in some easy form critical, since Same here > I also find myself using the tclkit interactive prompt on Windows to get > things done on a regular basis and I occasionally test out tcl frags from > comp.lang.tcl via my unix tclkit. Ditto > > So I sure would not want the ability to get to this to disappear altogether. > And I know that's not being proposed - just that the way to get to the > prompt change. > > If the command line interface to tclkit is going to evolve, perhaps adding > a -console option or something is possible (with that being the default on > a Mac). > Ditto regards, nicolas boretos From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Jul 15 11:17:36 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6FGHZa24381 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 11:17:35 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA11099 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:16:35 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA12431 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:17:34 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id MRC53N4S; Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:17:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3D32F59B.C9D6FDA6@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 09:17:31 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "starkit-equi4.com" Subject: Re: [Starkit] SDX/Startool vs. All-In-One Tclkit References: <5.0.2.1.0.20020713155857.030c7920@mail.wjduquette.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > To begin, I suggested that a better name for SDX would be "Startool", > that being the thing you use to create Starkits and Starpacks. He didn't > disagree, but passed along some comments from somebody else > suggesting that SDX should go away altogether; the functionality should > be rolled into Tclkit instead. My opinion is that "Startool" should be reserved for a release of SDX that is easier to use and understand. I think the objective should be that a user could use Startool to create a starkit or starpack without having any prior knowledge. Currently SDX is just a bag full of tools that don't give a user much help in understanding on how to use them to create a starkit. I am would prefer that this new "Startool" functionality not be included into a tclkit because I view the purpose of Startool as a developer tool and not part of a distribution. I think that the Startool should have both a faceless and GUI based interface. The GUI based interface you provide a way to walk new developers through the steps required to build a starkit and could also result in a file that contains a "packing list" file that could be reused when running Startool from a build script with out the GUI. I also think that the Startool application should include the existing genkit functionality and additional functionality designed to build and manage extensions. I believe there is a need for build support based on my current these personal observation about the existing kitten archive: 1) Kitten is large and contains a larger number of extensions 2) Most of the kitten extensions can not be used by me because they aren't built for my platform 3) There are many extensions that I would like to uses that are not in kitten 4) The process of developing extensions should be encouraged by providing standards and not reserved for specialists (this is really an opinion :-) I believe there is a need for management support because I think there need to be tools that conveniently extract and package extensions into starpacks. I view here is Startool needs to include the capability to extract extensions from a Kitten like object and include the extensions in a target starkit or starpack. As a postscript to the above, I have a personal goal to develop such an application to facilitate the development work that I am doing. Regards, Tom K. From jgodfrey@optinest.com Tue Jul 16 16:53:01 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6GLr0a04534 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:53:01 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6GLpxn16164 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:52:02 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 16:52:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01C22CE9.3D72A1C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Subject: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C22CE9.3D72A1C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I am trying to create several views whose properties are named by their "view name" and "property name" using the familiar TK "dot" notation, like: user.name (view "user", property "name") user.descr (view "user", property "descr") I am finding that I cannot create views using this notation as it seems to crash tclkit during the mk::view layout command. For instance, the following will crash (the latest) tclkit (on NT anyway) --> mk::view layout db.user {user.name user.descr} After doing some reading, I decide that the above "dot" notation may be confusing mk4tcl due to the similar syntax of path and cursor definitions. Well, I like the dot notation (it's familiar), but don't *have* to have it, so I thought I'd just use a different separator character. Most other "common" characters either crash or cause other problems - most notably, the property name I originally create with the layout command is not exactly the property name that is returned by the layout command. For instance: --> mk::view layout db.user {user-name user-descr} seems to work, but then: --> mk::view layout db.user returns: --> user name user descr Hmmmm..... now that I am verifying the above at a tclkit command line, it seems to work exactly as described above *sometimes* and crashes other times - weird... Anyway, 2 questions: 1. Why do non alphanumeric characters in property names cause crashes? If this is a necessary limitation, should the property names be scanned for valid format? At the very least, there should probably be some mention of this in the documentation. 2. Is there an accepted (normal, workable, useable?) naming convention for providing both the view and property name within the property name itself? Basically, I may use a property from one view within another view (as a foreign key) and this naming style seems to make sense for making a programmatic jump back to the original view. BTW, I am no database expert, so my thinking could be all wrong, but shouldn't it work anyway? Thanks for any input. Jeff Godfrey Optimation USA (800) 523-4744 jgodfrey@optinest.com ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C22CE9.3D72A1C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=20 All,
 
I am = trying to=20 create several views whose properties are named by their "view name" and = "property name" using the familiar TK "dot" notation, = like:
 
user.name (view=20 "user", property "name")
user.descr (view=20 "user", property "descr")
 
I am = finding that I=20 cannot create views using this notation as it seems to crash tclkit = during the=20 mk::view layout command.  For instance, the following will crash = (the=20 latest) tclkit (on NT anyway)
 
--> = mk::view=20 layout db.user {user.name user.descr}
 
After = doing some=20 reading, I decide that the above "dot" notation may be confusing mk4tcl = due to=20 the similar syntax of path and cursor definitions.  Well, I like = the dot=20 notation (it's familiar), but don't *have* to have it, so I thought I'd = just use=20 a different separator character.  Most other "common" characters = either=20 crash or cause other problems - most notably, the property name I = originally=20 create with the layout command is not exactly the property name that is = returned=20 by the layout command.  For instance:
 
--> = mk::view=20 layout db.user {user-name user-descr}
 
seems = to work, but=20 then:
 
--> = mk::view=20 layout db.user
 
returns:
 
--> = user name=20 user descr
 
Hmmmm..... now that=20 I am verifying the above at a tclkit command line, it seems to = work=20 exactly as described above *sometimes* and crashes other times -=20 weird...
 
Anyway, 2=20 questions:
 
1.  Why do non=20 alphanumeric characters in property names cause crashes?  If this = is a=20 necessary limitation, should the property names be = scanned for=20 valid format?  At the very least, there should probably be some = mention of=20 this in the documentation.
 
2.  Is there = an accepted=20 (normal, workable, useable?) naming convention for providing both the = view and=20 property name within the property name itself?  Basically, I = may use a=20 property from one view within another view (as a foreign key) and this = naming=20 style seems to make sense for making a programmatic jump back to the = original=20 view.  BTW, I am no database expert, so my thinking could be all = wrong, but=20 shouldn't it work anyway?

Thanks for any=20 input.
 
 

Jeff = Godfrey
Optimation USA
(800) 523-4744
jgodfrey@optinest.com=20

 

 
------=_NextPart_000_0017_01C22CE9.3D72A1C0-- From jcw@equi4.com Tue Jul 16 18:41:37 2002 Received: from smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.141]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6GNfaa09663 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:41:37 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by smtpzilla5.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g6GNfZrZ030644 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:41:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "Starkit-Equi4.Com" Subject: Re: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:40:14 +0200 Message-Id: <20020716234014.27235@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: >the following will crash (the latest) tclkit (on NT anyway) > >--> mk::view layout db.user {user.name user.descr} [...] >1. Why do non alphanumeric characters in property names cause crashes? >If this is a necessary limitation, should the property names be scanned >for valid format? At the very least, there should probably be some >mention of this in the documentation. It's a limitation. Note that MetaKit gets used in C++ and Python as well, where this alpha-numeric-only convention is in fact probably the norm. I agree 100% on MK being too lenient in letting this crash, and on the docs needing to be updated to mention this. >2. Is there an accepted (normal, workable, useable?) naming convention >for providing both the view and property name within the property name >itself? >Basically, I may use a property from one view within another view (as a >foreign key) and this naming style seems to make sense for making a >programmatic jump back to the original view. It's the first time I see someone do it this way. It never occured to me, since from my perspective, a "person" has a "name", not a "person-name". It's very unlikely that MK will be adjusted to support such more elaborate identifiers, given that the plan is really to work more towards having view expressions and property expressions. The only "special" character you get is the underscore, so "user_name" would be one way out. Allowing more would intefere with possible future algebraic notations. But hey, this is Tcl, you can mold it in any way you like. How about this (untested) approach: proc propseq {} { global _propseq if {![info exists _propseq]} { set _propseq 0 } return p[incr _propseq] } set user.name [propseq] set user.descr [propseq] mk::view layout db.user [list ${user.name} ${user.descr}] This would introduce names p1, p2, etc, yet allow you to use longer and more descriptive names in your code. Note that in Tcl too, you will need the braces to deal with the embedded dot. But if you ask me, I wouldn't bother... just use "simple" identifiers. -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Wed Jul 17 08:18:39 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6HDIca09383; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:18:38 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6HDHGn18329; Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:17:26 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" , "Starkit-Equi4.Com" Subject: RE: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 08:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020716234014.27235@triqs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Jean-Claude Wippler > Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 6:40 PM > To: Starkit-Equi4.Com > Subject: Re: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems > > > Jeff Godfrey wrote: > > >2. Is there an accepted (normal, workable, useable?) naming convention > >for providing both the view and property name within the property name > >itself? > [... LOTS OF GOOD ADVICE FROM JCW ...] > But if you ask me, I wouldn't bother... just use "simple" identifiers. > > -jcw The limitation of "no special chars" in view identifier names is not really going to be a problem for me - I can live without them. I just wanted to understand why I was getting the crashes. After rethinking my design based on your suggestions, I decided that I was over complicating things anyway. I am just going to go back to simple, basic identifiers and get on with it. Thanks for the input! Also, is there a way for Joe Public (me...) to assist you with documentation modifications? I would be happy to try to document the mentioned naming convention limitations, but I'm not sure how to go about it. Best regards, Jeff Godfrey From jcw@equi4.com Thu Jul 18 10:18:59 2002 Received: from smtpzilla1.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla1.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.137]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6IFIwa09428 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 10:18:59 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.194] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by smtpzilla1.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g6IFIvqS042211 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:18:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "Starkit-Equi4.Com" Subject: RE: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 17:18:44 +0200 Message-Id: <20020718151844.22841@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: >Thanks for the input! Also, is there a way for Joe Public (me...) to assist >you with documentation modifications? I would be happy to try to document >the mentioned naming convention limitations, but I'm not sure how to go >about it. My suggestions would be to either email document text to this mailing list (might work as long as it's not an entire treatise), or to set up a number of pages on the metakit wiki, which has been around for some time: http://www.equi4.com/metakit/wiki.cgi/ To add a page: - pick an existing page - press "edit" - add a line containing say "... [My new page] ..." - save - click on the brackets (which are in fact tiny hyperlinks) - that's... you'll be in a window ready to fill in the name page - save (I need to document this better too, my goodness: a *recursive* doc issue!) Please feel free to add and adjust as much as you like. Disk space is just about the cheapest resource on earth these days. -jcw From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 19 05:28:22 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6JASLa05450 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:28:21 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id LAA04841 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:28:19 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:28:18 +0100 (GMT/BST) Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] startup failures Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Further to the thread on clt re. encoding startup failures with symbolic links, the latest official tclkit build for Linux throws an error on startup regardless of whether it's called via a symbolic link: application specific initialization failure: couldn't open setup.tcl; no such file or directory This in response to a simple call from the command line with or without a tcl script being named. Haven't got a suitable starkit to hand to test that right this minute. -- Steve Blinkhorn From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 19 05:41:41 2002 Received: from smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl (smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl [194.109.127.139]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6JAfea05953 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:41:40 -0500 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by smtpzilla3.xs4all.nl (8.12.0/8.12.0) with ESMTP id g6JAfbec057672 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:41:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] startup failures Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:41:20 +0200 Message-Id: <20020719104120.30485@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> References: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Blinkhorn wrote: >Further to the thread on clt re. encoding startup failures with >symbolic links, the latest official tclkit build for Linux throws an >error on startup regardless of whether it's called via a symbolic >link: > >application specific initialization failure: couldn't open setup.tcl; >no such file or directory > >This in response to a simple call from the command line with or without a >tcl script being named. Haven't got a suitable starkit to hand to test >that right this minute. If it's the .upx.exe version: ignore it, UPX failed on it for some reason beyond my comprehension. Use the .gz version, unpack to use it. There are newer (again!) builds in http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ which I think fix this issue. They also may address problems with long dirs containing spaces, because Tcl is being tweaked to address some recent issues - see http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/CHANGES There are /pub/tk/older* directories to fall back to if needed. FYI, the August build of tclkit will be available end of that month. The September build of tclkit will be generated as soon as Tcl/Tk 8.4 reaches final. Please keep pounding hard on things, because otherwise two months from now you'll regret you didn't... -jcw From vince.darley@eurobios.com Fri Jul 19 05:48:09 2002 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6JAm8a06287 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 05:48:09 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17VVIs-000FKG-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:48:06 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020719114534.02d19a40@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 11:48:05 +0100 To: From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] startup failures In-Reply-To: <20020719104120.30485@triqs.com> References: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >There are newer (again!) builds in http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ >which I think fix this issue. They also may address problems with long >dirs containing spaces, because Tcl is being tweaked to address some >recent issues - see http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/CHANGES I'm glad to see you've updated to latest Tcl cvs head. It is _very_ important that these tclkits get tested on Win95/98 to see if the old '30 second startup' problem has returned. This is because the latest cvs head got rid of the use of short path names on those platforms (which we had used to solve the 30-second problem). Short paths do not have consistent semantics, so long paths must be used. However, the new long-path code should be much faster than the old. cheers, Vince. From gay@sfu.ca Fri Jul 19 12:43:50 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6JHhna30799 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:43:50 -0500 Received: from ian.chem.sfu.ca (ian.chem.sfu.ca [142.58.209.2]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/SFU-6.0H) with SMTP id g6JHhkmD012711 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20020719104346.3f37286a@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: gay@mailserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 10:43:46 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Ian Gay Subject: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have got some exit crashes on Win98 which are not quite the same as those described in the thread [Starkit] TclKit crashes on NT. On exiting from the program I sometimes get Invalid page fault in TCLKIT.EXE at 0177:0042f7be (always same address). This doesn't always occur, and so far I only get it with starkits that contain home-brewed C extensions. (Sounds suspicious, but scripts+extensions work under wish with no problems). Sometimes the crash occurs when the program is terminated by clicking the window close button, and not when an exit command is run. However, in other programs, exit causes the crash too. From vince.darley@eurobios.com Fri Jul 19 20:09:04 2002 Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6K194a26160 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:09:04 -0500 Received: from trapper.eurobios.com (ACBA3B7E.ipt.aol.com [172.186.59.126]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AIH08098 (AUTH vincedarley); Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:09:31 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020720020814.01bc7b10@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: vincedarley@mail.onetel.net.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 02:08:58 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] startup failures In-Reply-To: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, The symbolic link startup problem has now been fixed. Requires update to latest cvs head of tcl and vfs trees. cheers, Vince. From vince.darley@eurobios.com Sat Jul 20 03:40:20 2002 Received: from msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.148]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6K8eJa03667 for ; Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:40:19 -0500 Received: from trapper.eurobios.com (ACB4DE3E.ipt.aol.com [172.180.222.62]) by msgdirector1.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id AIH68236 (AUTH vincedarley); Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:40:48 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020720092722.01bc4ee0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: vincedarley@mail.onetel.net.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 09:40:15 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] startup failures In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020720020814.01bc7b10@mail.wolfbusiness.com> References: <200207191028.LAA04841@sole.prd.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 02:08 AM 7/20/2002 +0100, Vince Darley wrote: >The symbolic link startup problem has now been fixed. Requires update to >latest cvs head of tcl and vfs trees. I should clarify one subtlety. If you have 'tclkitsh' and './foo' as a link to tclkitsh then both: >./tclkitsh and >./foo work just fine. However, the way I've set things up right now, in both cases the new filesystem mount point is [file normalize ./tclkitsh]. This means that some uses of 'foo' as a directory will fail. More precisely: Any deep use of 'foo' as a directory is ok -- anything where 'foo' is not the last path element: % cd foo/bin % pwd /path/to/tclkitsh/bin all ok! But: % cd foo couldn't change directory to ... not a directory. % glob -dir foo * no files matched glob pattern etc. Is this behaviour ok? To some extent it has to be like that, because Tcl will transparently replace any deep use of 'foo' by the corresponding path with 'tclkitsh' in it, and so it has to be the case that tclkitsh is the thing that is mounted by tclvfs. However, it does mean that: 'cd [info nameof]' will fail for symlinks. Of course you can workaround with: if {[catch {file link [info nameof]} to]} { cd [info nameof] } else { cd $to } or, in case there are multiple symlinks (foo->bar->blah->tclkit): cd [vfs::filesystem fullynormalize [info nameof]] Actually a simpler workaround altogether would be to use: [file dirname [file normalize [file join [info nameof] dummyName]]] instead of [info nameof] Any thoughts? Vince. From mike.collins@riley.army.mil Mon Jul 22 08:02:09 2002 Received: from rilex06.riley.army.mil (emh1.riley.army.mil [144.246.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MD26a19055 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:02:07 -0500 Received: by emh1.riley.army.mil with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:00:11 -0500 Message-ID: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EFD@rilex11.riley.army.mil> From: "Collins, Mike DAC DOIM" To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:06:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Starkit] Instructions of using startkits. Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Do we still have to modify our "source" statements to package up starkits? The instructions don't explicitly say to but that's the only way I could get it to work. Actually I think the instructions don't mention anything about the source statements. Michael E. Collins DOIM, Senior Network Tech. From vince.darley@eurobios.com Mon Jul 22 08:05:50 2002 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MD5oa19340 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 08:05:50 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17Wcsm-000O1y-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:05:48 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020722140441.02aed008@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 14:05:47 +0100 To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] Instructions of using startkits. In-Reply-To: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EFD@rilex11.riley.arm y.mil> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I don't know exactly what you mean, but no, you shouldn't need to modify anything to package up starkits. Perhaps if you provided some more detail? Vince. At 08:06 AM 7/22/2002 -0500, Collins, Mike DAC DOIM wrote: >Do we still have to modify our "source" statements to package up starkits? > >The instructions don't explicitly say to but that's the only way I could get >it to work. Actually I think the instructions don't mention anything about >the source statements. > > > >Michael E. Collins >DOIM, Senior Network Tech. >_______________________________________________ >starkit mailing list >starkit@equi4.com >http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit Vince Darley CEO, Eurobios UK Ltd Tel: +44 (0)207 420 4319 Mobile: +44 (0) 794 154 8527 www.eurobios.com & www.biosgroup.com From nicolasb@maich.gr Mon Jul 22 09:34:10 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6MEY8a27913 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:34:09 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Mon Jul 22 18:00:15 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D3C18A1.9020702@maich.gr> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:37:21 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Collins, Mike DAC DOIM" CC: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Instructions of using startkits. References: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EFD@rilex11.riley.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, What I usually do is the following. Put all files to be source (at one point or other) in your bin directory Then incude the following in your main.tcl file set mybin [file join $scripdoc::self bin] or this even works set mybin [file join [info script] bin] Then files are then sourced as source [file join $mybin my_file.tcl] regards, nicolas boretos Collins, Mike DAC DOIM wrote: > Do we still have to modify our "source" statements to package up starkits? > > The instructions don't explicitly say to but that's the only way I could get > it to work. Actually I think the instructions don't mention anything about > the source statements. From nicolasb@maich.gr Mon Jul 22 09:55:19 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6MEtIa28890 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:55:18 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Mon Jul 22 18:21:25 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D3C1D98.60402@maich.gr> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:58:32 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Collins, Mike DAC DOIM" CC: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Instructions of using startkits. References: <73C2ED40DAD3D311934E00500400935F03951EFD@rilex11.riley.army.mil> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, What I actually wanted to point out was that we set the bin directory relative to either the scripted document, or the file system, depending as to whether we scripdoc or not. set mybin [pwd] set mybin {c:/test.vfs/bin} etc. or set mybin [file join $scripdoc::self bin] regards nicolas From gay@sfu.ca Mon Jul 22 11:00:34 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MG0Xa31945 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:00:33 -0500 Received: from ian.chem.sfu.ca (ian.chem.sfu.ca [142.58.209.2]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/SFU-6.0H) with SMTP id g6MG0VmD001212 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:00:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: gay@mailserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:00:29 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Ian Gay Subject: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well, the win98 exit crash doesn't arise from my incompetence at building extensions. It seems like any binary extension will do. (I haven't seen this crash with any all-tcl starkit). Here's a minimal example using Tktable - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ D:\tcl\tclkit>sdx lsk crash.kit crash.kit: dir lib/ 114 02/07/20 18:54 main.tcl crash.kit/lib: dir Tktable2.7/ 258 02/07/20 19:01 crash.tcl crash.kit/lib/Tktable2.7: 336756 02/07/20 19:03 Tktable.dll 152 02/01/25 08:36 pkgIndex.tcl 21517 02/01/25 08:36 tkTable.tcl D:\tcl\tclkit>type crash.vfs\main.tcl package require starkit starkit::startup source [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib crash.tcl] D:\tcl\tclkit>type crash.vfs\lib\crash.tcl # This provokes the crash if you exit with the X button # if you comment out the following statement there's no crash package require Tktable pack [button .b -width 12 -text Quit -font {arial 10} -command exit] # no crash if you press this button D:\tcl\tclkit> From andreask@ActiveState.com Mon Jul 22 11:04:18 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MG4Ia32197 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:04:18 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MG4BW12314; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:04:11 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6MG4B223692; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:04:11 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Ian Gay" , Subject: RE: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 09:04:11 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Does it also happen with binary extensions which are not Tk related ? IOW with a binary extension not providing a widget ? -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com Join Tcl'2002 in Vancouver http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ ** Registration is open ** > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Ian Gay > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 9:00 AM > To: starkit@equi4.com > Subject: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 > > > Well, the win98 exit crash doesn't arise from my incompetence at building > extensions. It seems like any binary extension will do. (I haven't seen > this crash with any all-tcl starkit). > > Here's a minimal example using Tktable - > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > ------------------------ > > D:\tcl\tclkit>sdx lsk crash.kit > > crash.kit: > dir lib/ > 114 02/07/20 18:54 main.tcl > > crash.kit/lib: > dir Tktable2.7/ > 258 02/07/20 19:01 crash.tcl > > crash.kit/lib/Tktable2.7: > 336756 02/07/20 19:03 Tktable.dll > 152 02/01/25 08:36 pkgIndex.tcl > 21517 02/01/25 08:36 tkTable.tcl > > > D:\tcl\tclkit>type crash.vfs\main.tcl > > package require starkit > starkit::startup > source [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib crash.tcl] > > D:\tcl\tclkit>type crash.vfs\lib\crash.tcl > # This provokes the crash if you exit with the X button > > # if you comment out the following statement there's no crash > package require Tktable > > pack [button .b -width 12 -text Quit -font {arial 10} -command exit] > # no crash if you press this button > > > D:\tcl\tclkit> > > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Mon Jul 22 11:39:47 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MGdka01349 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:39:46 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA16089 for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:39:40 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207221639.RAA16089@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:39:40 +0100 (GMT/BST) Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Starkit crashes - possible insight Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have suddenly started having significant problems which yield the same error message as the infamous crash-on-exit bug we've struggled with. It started last week when a starkit tclhttpd server that had been running perfectly for several weeks started to crash after delivering the first page it was asked for (a simple static html page). We have had no success in getting it to start and stay running since, checking on three different machines, NT4.0, win2000 Professional and Win200 Server. We have tried multiple versions of tclkit and tclkitsh, some of which are in constant production use here (as is most of the starkit tclhttpd on a BSD/OS box). We were coming to the conclusion that the problem was date-related, or clock clicks related, then remembered we had had a similar problem last November, when we found the only way to get things going was to run from a floppy (sic - yes seriously). But that didn't help either. So I unwrapped the starkit back into a .vfs and ran from that, and so far, fingers crossed, it's running OK. So we seem to have something that is related to the fact that we're running a starkit, that's Windows related (we don't see it on BSD/OS), that isn't usage related (new copies fall over), that isn't a defect in a particular version of tclkit (we've tried everything up to an including the pre-release versions), and that could well be date-related (it started out of the blue last week, and now is universal on the various machines we can muster). I'll go on trying to narrow this down, but if other people are having crash problems again, some of the above may help. Meanwhile, all suggestions gratefully received. -- Steve Blinkhorn From mike@eolas.com Mon Jul 22 17:17:01 2002 Received: from www.iomas.com (65-85-54-210.client.dsl.net [65.85.54.210]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MMH0a18418 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:17:01 -0500 Received: from gimr0.eolas.com [65.85.54.221] by www.iomas.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.04) id A45B39F101EE; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:16:59 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020722171418.04200790@mail.eolas.com> X-Sender: mike@mail.eolas.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:17:01 -0500 To: From: Mike Doyle Subject: RE: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 09:04 AM 7/22/2002 -0700, Andreas Kupries wrote: >Does it also happen with binary extensions which are not Tk related ? >IOW with a binary extension not providing a widget ? I'm getting crash-on-exit with the latest upx'ed win32 tclkit.exe and wikit.kit, under Windows 2000. --Mike From fandom@retemail.es Mon Jul 22 18:54:39 2002 Received: from tnetmx1.mail.isp ([213.4.129.135]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6MNsca23468 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 18:54:39 -0500 Received: from Shire.Asturias.es ([80.24.194.172]) by tnetmx1.mail.isp (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 tnetmx1 Mar 14 2002 21:29:48) with ESMTP id GZOD2Z00.DKL for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:54:35 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Andr=E9s=20Garc=EDa?= To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 01:54:33 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <200207230154.33980.fandom@retemail.es> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, And if you do something like: wm protocol . WM_DELETE_WINDOW { exit } Do you get a crash when closing the window? Not that I know what the cause may be, but it could be an easy workaround. Andres From gay@sfu.ca Mon Jul 22 19:05:07 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6N057a23943 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 19:05:07 -0500 Received: from ian.chem.sfu.ca (ian.chem.sfu.ca [142.58.209.2]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/SFU-6.0H) with SMTP id g6N054mD022221; Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:05:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20020722170504.406f1734@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: gay@mailserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 17:05:04 To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9s?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_Garc=EDa?= , starkit@equi4.com From: Ian Gay Subject: Re: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 In-Reply-To: <200207230154.33980.fandom@retemail.es> References: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g6N057a23943 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 01:54 23/07/02 +0200, Andrs Garca wrote: >Hi, > >And if you do something like: > > wm protocol . WM_DELETE_WINDOW { > exit > } > >Do you get a crash when closing the window? > >Not that I know what the cause may be, but it could >be an easy workaround. > >Andres That will prevent the crash in this particular case. However, as I mentioned in my first post, there are some cases where exit will also cause the crash. I haven't reduced this to a simple example yet. Ian From jgodfrey@optinest.com Tue Jul 23 08:18:32 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NDIWa21976 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:18:32 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g6NDIVp07404 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:18:34 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: Subject: RE: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:19:09 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020722170504.406f1734@mailserver.sfu.ca> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Ian Gay > Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 5:05 PM > To: Andrs Garca; starkit@equi4.com > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 > > > That will prevent the crash in this particular case. However, as I > mentioned in my first post, there are some cases where exit will > also cause > the crash. I haven't reduced this to a simple example yet. > > Ian That's been my experience also - the problem seems to be very elusive. Sometimes "exit" causes it, sometimes not. Sometimes clicking on the "X" to close the program causes it, sometimes not - although this tends to cause it more often than exit. Also, the exact same simple steps that sometimes cause the problem don't consistently cause it.... Jeff From gay@sfu.ca Tue Jul 23 10:52:33 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NFqWa03794 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 10:52:33 -0500 Received: from ian.chem.sfu.ca (ian.chem.sfu.ca [142.58.209.2]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/SFU-6.0H) with SMTP id g6NFqNmD014422; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20020723085220.36671d52@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: gay@mailserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 08:52:20 To: "Andreas Kupries" , From: Ian Gay Subject: RE: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 09:04 22/07/02 -0700, Andreas Kupries wrote: > >Does it also happen with binary extensions which are not Tk related ? >IOW with a binary extension not providing a widget ? > Looks like maybe not. Using the same kit framework as my previous example, I get the crash when I load Tktable, Tkhtml or snack. I _don't_ get a crash if I load the registry or dde pacjkages. But note you only have to load the package to get the crash, you don't have to use it in any way. Why should Tk be different at this level? Ian From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Jul 23 11:03:24 2002 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6NG3Oa04644 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:03:24 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17X286-0001Ac-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:03:18 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020723170048.034f1608@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 17:03:17 +0100 To: From: Vince Darley Subject: RE: [Starkit] Crash on exit with Win98 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020723085220.36671d52@mailserver.sfu.ca> References: <3.0.6.16.20020722090029.09cf0ef8@mailserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 08:52 AM 7/23/2002 +0000, Ian Gay wrote: >At 09:04 22/07/02 -0700, Andreas Kupries wrote: > > > >Does it also happen with binary extensions which are not Tk related ? > >IOW with a binary extension not providing a widget ? > > >Looks like maybe not. Using the same kit framework as my previous example, >I get the crash when I load Tktable, Tkhtml or snack. I _don't_ get a crash >if I load the registry or dde pacjkages. I believe dde and registry are statically compiled in (so there is no actual loading to do --- just a 'load {} dde') so they aren't the same case (you can use "info loaded" to find out). Is there a non-static Tcl-only extension available to test with Vince. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Wed Jul 24 10:05:03 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OF53a04242; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:05:03 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA08969; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:05:06 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA16344; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:05:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id MRC538P8; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:05:01 -0700 Message-ID: <3D3EC21D.6E0A7FC2@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:05:01 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: "Starkit-Equi4.Com" Subject: Re: [Starkit] mk4tcl view name problems References: <20020718151844.22841@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm having problem getting the latest version mk to build on SunOS and HP. I fixed the problem on HP, but I can't figure out what the problem is on SunOS. The out/mk file is shown below. It seems to be complaining about the g++ compiler but the compiler exists and is being detected. Any suggestions? RUN: sh ../../../src/mk/unix/configure --prefix=/home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/noarch --exec-prefix=/home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/install/dmisvr --with-tcl=/home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/src/tcl/generic checking for Python configuration... not enabled checking for Tcl headers... found /home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/src/tcl/generic/tcl.h checking for g++... g++ checking for C++ compiler default output... a.out checking whether the C++ compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C++ compiled programs. If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. ERROR: child process exited abnormally while executing "run sh ../../../src/mk/unix/configure --prefix=/home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/noarch --exec-prefix=/home/rna020/UNPACK/Tcl_Tk/NEWtclVer/install/..." ("eval" body line 1) invoked from within "eval [list run sh [file join ../../../src $dir configure] --prefix=$::P/noarch --exec-prefix=$::P/install/$::H] $args" (procedure "config" line 2) invoked from within "config mk/unix --with-tcl=$P/src/tcl/generic" ("mk" arm line 2) invoked from within "switch $target { tcl { config tcl/unix --disable-shared #run $X(make) genstubs run $X(make) binaries libraries file mkdir $P/i..." From contact_mel@yahoo.com Wed Jul 24 11:47:42 2002 Received: from web12301.mail.yahoo.com (web12301.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.99]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6OGlga10293 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:47:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20020724164741.11745.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.202.103.132] by web12301.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:47:41 PDT Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:47:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Mel To: starkit@equi4.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Starkit] (no subject) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: like the document said, i do 'kitten.kit -l' and i do not see itk or itcl listed! am i missing something? Yours, Mel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 24 11:55:32 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OGtVa10735 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:55:31 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6OGtPO22970 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6OGtP808159; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:55:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:55:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020724125525.AAB8150@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] (no subject) In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:47:41 -0700 (PDT) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I believe itcl/itk are built into tclkit . -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Wed Jul 24 12:10:50 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OHAna11739 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:10:49 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id KAA03676 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:10:49 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA08044 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:11:04 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id MRC53886; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:10:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3D3EDF97.93548D3A@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:10:47 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] (no subject) References: <20020724164741.11745.qmail@web12301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > like the document said, i do 'kitten.kit -l' and i do not see itk or > itcl listed! > > am i missing something? Itcl is include in tclkit but Itk is not include. -tjk From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 24 12:35:30 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OHZUa13436 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:35:30 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6OHZOO04191 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:35:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6OHZNa08804; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:35:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:35:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020724133523.AAB8762@cas.org> In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 24 Jul 2002 10:10:47 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] Re: Where did itk go =? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Shoot - I just tried to do a kitten.kit -u and tclkit core dumped on me! Platform: SPARC Solaris 8 The stack trace says: $ dbx $(whence tclkit) core Reading tclkit dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_DerivedSeqR11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_PropertyRC11c4_Property' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_FileMark' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__14c4_SaveContextR11c4_StrategybiP9c4_DifferP12c4_Allocator' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_TclStreamP12Tcl_Channel_' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_SortSeqR11c4_SequenceP11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_HashViewerR11c4_SequenceiP11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_StorageR11c4_Strategybi' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16__user_type_infoPCc' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_JoinViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_ViewT2b' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_BlockedViewerR11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_OrderedViewerR11c4_Sequencei' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_GroupByViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_ViewRC11c4_Property' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_PersistR11c4_Strategybi' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_FileMarklbT2' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__17__class_type_infoPCcPCQ217__class_type_info9base_infoUi' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_Strategy' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__17c4_StreamStrategyP9c4_Stream' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_ProductViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_Allocator' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_StorageRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__14__si_type_infoPCcRC16__user_type_info' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_PropertycPCc' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_FilterSeqR11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_CustomHandlerRC11c4_PropertyP12c4_CustomSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatFRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__17c4_JoinPropViewerR11c4_SequenceRC11c4_ViewPropb' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__15c4_CustomViewer' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_CustomSeqP15c4_CustomViewer' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__15c4_ConcatViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_PairViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatXRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeqi' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_HandlerSeqR13c4_HandlerSeqP10c4_Handler' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_StoragePCci' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11c4_FileMarkli' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_ProjectSeqR11c4_SequenceT1bP11c4_Sequence' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_FileStreamP4FILEb' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__15c4_RenameViewerR11c4_SequenceRC11c4_PropertyT2' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatBRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatSRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_HandlerRC11c4_Property' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatVRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_Storage' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatLRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__14c4_SliceViewerR11c4_Sequenceiii' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_FilterSeqR11c4_SequenceG9c4_CursorT2' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__18c4_RemapWithViewerR11c4_SequenceRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_FormatHandlerRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_BaseArray' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__16c4_IndexedViewerR11c4_SequenceT1RC7c4_Viewb' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13c4_HandlerSeqP10c4_Persist' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__13bad_exception' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11TclSelectorP10Tcl_InterpRC7c4_View' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10c4_FormatDRC11c4_PropertyR13c4_HandlerSeq' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__15c4_FileStrategyP4FILE' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__17c4_StreamStrategyl' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__11MkWorkspaceP10Tcl_Interp' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__10bad_typeid' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__12c4_ColOfIntsP10c4_Persisti' dbx: warning: cannot demangle '__15c4_Dependencies' core file header read successfully Reading ld.so.1 Reading libdl.so.1 Reading libsocket.so.1 Reading libnsl.so.1 Reading libm.so.1 Reading libc.so.1 Reading libmp.so.2 Reading libc_psr.so.1 program terminated by signal BUS (invalid address alignment) 0x00073ed4: Tcl_NotifyChannel+0x0014: ld [%i0], %l1 (dbx 1) where =>[1] Tcl_NotifyChannel(0x7, 0x10, 0xc79979, 0x3, 0x0, 0xffbe8f50), at 0x73ed4 [2] 0x39a60(0x2f8bb0, 0x39a54, 0x0, 0x3, 0x0, 0xffbe8fc0), at 0x39a5f [3] 0x907a0(0x41e420, 0x15d1d0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x135a44, 0xffbe8f80), at 0x9079f [4] Tcl_ServiceEvent(0xfffffffd, 0xfffffffd, 0x9066c, 0x61, 0x5eadc, 0xffbe9124), at 0x82378 [5] Tcl_DoOneEvent(0xfffffffd, 0x41de80, 0x61, 0x5eadc, 0xffbe9124, 0xffbe9124), at 0x826b4 [6] Tcl_VwaitObjCmd(0x1, 0x1364b8, 0x41de80, 0x1368e4, 0x5e9c8, 0xff1c1acc), at 0x5ea50 [7] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x2, 0x1368e4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [8] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x1a, 0x1e7df0, 0x0, 0x169b65, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [9] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x15f738, 0x1368dc, 0x0, 0xf87c8, 0x0), at 0x5f490 [10] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x15f738, 0x0, 0x1, 0x100ae0, 0x1e8728), at 0x3ca98 [11] TclObjInterpProc(0x1, 0x1364b8, 0x0, 0x1368dc, 0xffbe9458, 0x1364b8), at 0x8aee0 [12] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x2, 0x1368dc, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [13] 0x5fd80(0x0, 0x18, 0x6d88f0, 0x147f98, 0x11e0d8, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [14] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x1c2998, 0x4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x5f490 [15] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x1c2998, 0x0, 0x0, 0x59, 0x0), at 0x3ca98 [16] TclObjInterpProc(0x2, 0x1364b8, 0x0, 0x1368c4, 0x6dbaf0, 0x1364b8), at 0x8aee0 [17] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x6, 0x1368c4, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [18] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x16, 0x136788, 0x0, 0xffbea1b0, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [19] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x1bcdd8, 0xffbea1b0, 0x0, 0x122580, 0xff1c294c), at 0x5f490 [20] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x1bcdd8, 0x0, 0x1, 0x100ae0, 0x17dcd8), at 0x3ca98 [21] TclObjInterpProc(0x2, 0x1364b8, 0x0, 0x1368b8, 0xffbea018, 0x1364b8), at 0x8aee0 [22] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x3, 0x1368b8, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [23] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x10, 0x136788, 0x0, 0xffbea560, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [24] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x556f70, 0x6b450, 0x0, 0xffbea608, 0xffbea60c), at 0x5f490 [25] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x556f70, 0x0, 0x0, 0xa090920, 0x2d000000), at 0x3ca98 [26] Tcl_SwitchObjCmd(0x3, 0x1364b8, 0x54c, 0x43ed08, 0x4b194, 0xffbea7a4), at 0x4b560 [27] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x3, 0x1368ac, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [28] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0xd, 0x136788, 0x0, 0x0, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [29] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x150220, 0x0, 0x557648, 0x0, 0xadf78), at 0x5f490 [30] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x150220, 0x0, 0x557648, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3ca98 [31] Tcl_ForeachObjCmd(0x0, 0x1364b8, 0xffbeaa08, 0x1, 0xffbeaa18, 0xffbeaa48), at 0x43328 [32] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x4, 0x13689c, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [33] 0x5fd80(0x0, 0xa, 0x0, 0x0, 0xffbeacac, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [34] TclCompEvalObj(0x0, 0x1e2e40, 0x0, 0x1364b8, 0xf8fa0, 0x0), at 0x5f490 [35] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x1e2e40, 0x0, 0x0, 0xa202020, 0x2d000000), at 0x3ca98 [36] Tcl_SwitchObjCmd(0x1, 0x1364b8, 0x54c, 0x1e4908, 0x4b194, 0x0), at 0x4b560 [37] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x5, 0xffbeaf18, 0x1f2900, 0x1b00, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [38] Tcl_EvalEx(0x0, 0x1f0538, 0x3ece, 0xffbeb060, 0x0, 0x1), at 0x3c644 [39] Tcl_FSEvalFile(0x1364b8, 0x16a9e0, 0x136894, 0x136788, 0x200, 0x0), at 0x787fc [40] Tcl_SourceObjCmd(0x0, 0x1364b8, 0x2, 0x136894, 0x48e84, 0x1364b8), at 0x48ea4 [41] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x2, 0x136894, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [42] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x6, 0x55304, 0x0, 0xa, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [43] TclCompEvalObj(0x0, 0x16a4d0, 0x0, 0x1364b8, 0xf8fa0, 0x0), at 0x5f490 [44] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x16a4d0, 0x0, 0x0, 0xa202020, 0x2d000000), at 0x3ca98 [45] Tcl_SwitchObjCmd(0x1, 0x1364b8, 0x54c, 0x1b8d78, 0x4b194, 0x0), at 0x4b560 [46] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x4, 0xffbeb7e8, 0x1b7d9c, 0x613, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [47] Tcl_EvalEx(0x0, 0x1b7d20, 0x68f, 0xffbeb8f0, 0x0, 0x1), at 0x3c644 [48] Tcl_FSEvalFile(0x1364b8, 0x16a398, 0xffbebd08, 0x136788, 0x6c, 0x165888), at 0x787fc [49] Tcl_SourceObjCmd(0x0, 0x1364b8, 0x2, 0xffbebd08, 0x48e84, 0xadf78), at 0x48ea4 [50] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x2, 0xffbebd08, 0x17dfd0, 0x32, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [51] Tcl_EvalEx(0x0, 0x17dfd0, 0x32, 0xffbebdd0, 0x0, 0x1), at 0x3c644 [52] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x15fb40, 0x40000, 0x17a558, 0x0, 0xffbeb9b4), at 0x3ca74 [53] Tcl_UplevelObjCmd(0x0, 0x1364b8, 0x1, 0x136890, 0x8a898, 0xff1c1acc), at 0x8a964 [54] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x2, 0x13688c, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [55] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x4, 0x17a558, 0x0, 0x236a8, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [56] TclCompEvalObj(0x1364b8, 0x16b4a0, 0x1, 0x0, 0xffbec568, 0xffbec56c), at 0x5f490 [57] Tcl_EvalObjEx(0x1364b8, 0x16b4a0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x19, 0x0), at 0x3ca98 [58] TclObjInterpProc(0x2, 0x1364b8, 0x0, 0x136880, 0xffbec328, 0x1364b8), at 0x8aee0 [59] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x3, 0x136880, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [60] 0x5fd80(0x1364b8, 0x2, 0x1515d8, 0x1c, 0xffbecfb8, 0x136880), at 0x5fd7f [61] Tcl_ExprObj(0x0, 0x1515d8, 0xffbed024, 0x0, 0x11e314, 0x9a5f0), at 0x5f224 [62] Tcl_ExprBooleanObj(0x1364b8, 0x1515d8, 0xffbed09c, 0x136788, 0xa, 0x13e028), at 0x3d224 [63] Tcl_IfObjCmd(0x0, 0x1364b8, 0x3, 0xffbed198, 0x4401c, 0xffbed108), at 0x44074 [64] TclEvalObjvInternal(0x0, 0x3, 0xffbed198, 0x154fb0, 0xcf, 0x0), at 0x3bdac [65] Tcl_EvalEx(0x0, 0x154fb0, 0xcf, 0xffbed280, 0x0, 0x1), at 0x3c644 [66] Tcl_FSEvalFile(0x1364b8, 0x13e8f8, 0xfe2c8, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x787fc [67] Tcl_Main(0x2, 0xffbed7b0, 0x38f38, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x7e290 [68] main(0x3, 0xffbed7ac, 0xffbed7bc, 0x133064, 0x0, 0x0), at 0x39c5c (dbx 2) ----- I went and directly downloaded the latest kitten.kit, reran the kitten.kit -u and got a legit update . I've no idea what happened there... However, I do note that I was wrong - tclkit does NOT have Itk in it. In point of fact, some change to either kitten or tclkit in the past few weeks has now resulted in Iwidgets not being usable within tclkit (because of the missing Itk). Hopefully someone will be able to figure out what happened and recover things by the time JCW returns from holiday. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From e.leunissen@hccnet.nl Wed Jul 24 12:45:53 2002 Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OHjqa14287; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:45:53 -0500 Received: from hccnet.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via fia62-29.dsl.hccnet.nl [62.251.29.62] with ESMTP id TAA07833 (8.8.8/1.13); Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:45:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3D3EE814.2040409@hccnet.nl> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:47:00 +0200 From: Erik Leunissen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-GB; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-gb MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@EQUI4.COM CC: Jean-Claude Wippler Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] StarKit deployment in a networked environment. Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: L.S. I'm developing a network-aware application (*), which I originally meant to distribute as a TclKit-StarKit combination. (*) Every user launches the same executable, and the application takes care of user-specific data flow. However, once mounted by the first user, a VFS appears to be locked and is inaccessible for a second launch. Is there some way to work around this or do I need to revert to another deployment strategy? Thanks for advice, Erik Leunissen ============== From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Wed Jul 24 13:25:14 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OIPEa17193; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 13:25:14 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA24935; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:25:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA06737; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:25:12 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id MRC539GX; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:25:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3D3EF108.BA740EAA@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:25:12 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mel , starkit@equi4.com, metakit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] (no subject) References: <20020724180247.44688.qmail@web12305.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mel wrote: > > itk3.2 is included in the kitten library! > whay to i have to do to include it in my kitten application? > > many thanks > Mel > --- Tom Krehbiel wrote: > > > like the document said, i do 'kitten.kit -l' and i do not see itk > > or > > > itcl listed! > > > > > > am i missing something? > > > > Itcl is include in tclkit but Itk is not include. > > > > -tjk I don't know :-( , I'm still trying to get tclkit to build on Solaris. MetaKit seems to be broken on Solaris. I downloaded metakit-2.4.7-37 from the MetaKit site and it doesn't build so there is a problem with MetaKit. The error looks like this: % ../unix/configure checking for Python configuration... not enabled checking for Tcl headers... not enabled checking for g++... g++ checking for C++ compiler default output... a.out checking whether the C++ compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C++ compiled programs. If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. On HP I got tclkit to build and I can create a starkit with script that work, but as soon as I try to load a shared object the os complains /usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla02761 /usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied 200704couldn't load file "/var/tmp/tcla02761": permission denied while executing "load [file join $root lib Tktable2.7 Tktable.sl.2.7]" (file "test/main.tcl" line 24) invoked from within "source test/main.tcl" ("uplevel" body line 1) invoked from within "uplevel [list source [file join $self main.tcl]]" Any help on either of these problems would be appreciated. Tom K. From mel@redolive.com Wed Jul 24 14:58:15 2002 Received: from igoods.com (IDENT:qmailr@[67.40.211.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6OJwEa23819 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:58:15 -0500 Received: (qmail 10741 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2002 19:56:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO redolive2000) (67.40.211.10) by 67.40.211.9 with SMTP; 24 Jul 2002 19:56:26 -0000 Message-ID: <002101c2334c$e6bad450$a5c809c0@redolive2000> From: "Mel" To: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:01:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2332B.5F79E6F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Subject: [Starkit] GUYS! HELP !!!!!! Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2332B.5F79E6F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i am trying to use starkit out of the box as advertised. i can see = itk3.2 package and iwidgets=20 when i try to use iwidgets, i get the message itk3.2 can not be found! what's the deal? anyone else seen this? Yours, Mel ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2332B.5F79E6F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
i am trying to use starkit out of the = box as=20 advertised. i can see itk3.2 package and iwidgets
 
when i try to use iwidgets, i get the = message=20 itk3.2 can not be found!
 
what's the deal? anyone else seen=20 this?
 
Yours, Mel
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C2332B.5F79E6F0-- From acollin1@csc.com Wed Jul 24 16:56:18 2002 Received: from pony-express2 (ponyexpress2.csc.com [208.219.64.201]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6OLuIa01170 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:56:18 -0500 Received: from csc.com (va-fch32.csc.com [20.6.39.233]) by pony-express2.csc.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GZR004IDWG2YN@pony-express2.csc.com> for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:45:53 -0700 From: Alan E Collins To: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VA-FCH32/SRV/CSC(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 07/24/2002 05:46:00 PM Subject: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack startup howto Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: When starting an application wrapped in a starpack, is their a way to keep the startup code from sourcing files listed on the commandline. The application is an editor which may be started by double clicking an associated file or dropping a file on its desktop shortcut in windows. Alan Collins acollin1@csc.com From lvirden@cas.org Thu Jul 25 05:55:17 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PAtHa03743 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:55:17 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6PAtAO13778 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6PAtAp26207; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:55:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:55:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020725065510.AAB26178@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] GUYS! HELP !!!!!! In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 24 Jul 2002 16:01:29 -0400 To: Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mel, here's what I see when I use tclkit: $ tclkit % package require Itcl; 3.3 % package names http pwb rechan zipvfs tcltest opt mk4vfs vfslib msgcat scripdoc zlib starkit Tcl Itcl Mk4tcl vfs Tk % source kitten.kit % package names OAP::Utils uuencode smtpd counter Extral pwb soapinterop::base SOAP::smtp xmlswitch opt tcltest wcb Tablelist vfslib msgcat dyncall Mentry Iwidgets lzrw1 mathf uri::urn md5c SOAP::CGI math::calculus ftp expat gk Tclx SOAP::beep autoproxy tdom report comm rpcvar textutil::expander dommap Mk4tcl HTML_Parse SOAP::Service nntp htmlparse soapinterop::B SOAP::https math sgml soapinterop::C textutil SOAP::xpath csv cmdline dom::tclgeneric Widget xml::tclparser xpath cgi2dom ihash math::fuzzy ClassyTk Tktable sgmlparser xml::c mime autoscroll Wikit::Gui SOAP::ftp ncgi ftp::geturl Expect math::geometry xmldefs profiler cgi gbutton hexdump Tkhtml puretclparser rchan Wikit::Utils html HTML irc fileutil Class xml::expat SOAP::Domain stats javascript Tk vfs tclparser xml::tcl scratch http control tcllib zipvfs cksum Wcb tablelist Supertext pop3d::udb pop3d SOAP::http mentry mkWidgets zlib critcl calendar switched mvec stooop exif sum dom::libxml2 pop3d::dbox Modify uri dom::generic recha! n xerces xmldep pop3 tls SOAP mk4v fs Metawidget struct dns crc32 narray Web XMLRPC md5 BWidget yencode dom::tcl scripdoc Wikit dom xml log starkit Tcl smtp Itcl Mpexpr Trf Wikit::Format Tix sha1 base64 ascenc mclistbox ftpd blowfish dom::c Notice there is no Itk present there - even though there is an Iwidgets. Somehow Itk got lost from the Solaris build. Try the same steps and see if you see Itk. If so, then type package versions Itk and see what version is reported. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From lvirden@cas.org Thu Jul 25 05:56:18 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PAuIa03815 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 05:56:18 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6PAuBO13875 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6PAuBZ26220; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 06:56:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020725065611.AAB26211@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack startup howto In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:45:53 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've never built a starkit/starpack. But I am wondering - what if you invoked your application as: myeditor -- file.tcl Does the file still get sourced in? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From lvirden@cas.org Thu Jul 25 08:53:30 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PDrTa14993 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:53:29 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6PDrMO05657 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6PDrNM28140; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:53:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:53:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020725095323.AAB28085@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] GUYS! HELP !!!!!! To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: Mel > Thanks, Larry; > its not just Solaris, i am using it on WinDoze2000 and get the same > problem, i am stuck here guys :-( Mel, when I do sdx.kit kitten.kit I see a directory of all the pieces of kitten.kit. It contains the shared library info for itk 3.2 for Windows and Linux. I don't have either system on hand to test right now. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From lvirden@cas.org Thu Jul 25 09:30:30 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PEUTa17395 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:30:29 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6PEUMO17444 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6PEUM229018; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:30:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020725103022.AAB28985@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have started a page for gathering tips and suggestions regarding issues that a developer needs to address when adding extensions to Kitten, but in reality, they probably are really general issues for generating starkits. The page is at http://mini.net/tcl/3795 Please feel free to either discuss issues here or on that web page. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Jul 25 11:38:00 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PGc0a26636 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:38:00 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA23815 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:37:59 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA00649 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:37:59 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8H27; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:37:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3D402951.72953540@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:37:37 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry W. Virden" CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <20020725103022.AAB28985@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > I have started a page for gathering tips and > suggestions regarding issues that a developer needs to address when adding > extensions to Kitten, but in reality, they probably are really general > issues for generating starkits. The page is at > > http://mini.net/tcl/3795 My understanding is that Kitten is just a prototype so I'm inclined not to spend much time on figuring out how to make it work. It has many problems, not the least of which is that there is no defined structure either for Kitten itself or the packages it contains. I think our time needs to be spent on gathering documenting information about how to build a starkit and make it work. So far I have had no success in this regard. A build system that can walk a user through the process is sorely needed. I also think there will be an need for defining some standard testing for something like Kitten. From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Thu Jul 25 12:11:22 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PHBLa29010 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:11:21 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA09352; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:11:14 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200207251711.SAA09352@sole.prd.co.uk> To: Tom Krehbiel cc: "Larry W. Virden" , starkit@equi4.com, steve@sole.prd.co.uk Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:37:37 PDT." <3D402951.72953540@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:11:13 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>Tom Krehbiel said: > > I have started a page for gathering tips and > > suggestions regarding issues that a developer needs to address when adding > > extensions to Kitten, but in reality, they probably are really general > > issues for generating starkits. The page is at > > > > http://mini.net/tcl/3795 > > My understanding is that Kitten is just a prototype so I'm inclined not to s pend much time on figuring out how to make it work. It > has many problems, not the least of which is that there is no defined struct ure either for Kitten itself or the packages it > contains. I think our time needs to be spent on gathering documenting inform ation about how to build a starkit and make it work. So > far I have had no success in this regard. A build system that can walk a use r through the process is sorely needed. I also think > there will be an need for defining some standard testing for something like Kitten. It would help us help you if you could be a bit more specific about the difficulties you have encountered building starkits. A minimal starkit is a single tcl script called main.tcl in a directory called [mykitname].vfs. Then: tclkit sdx.kit wrap mykitname or, if tclkit is installed somewhere in your path, just sdx.kit wrap mykitname will leave you with a file called either mykitname or mykitname.kit (depends on your platform, AFAIK). You may need to change the permissions on the starkit file to make it executable, again depending on whether tclkit is in your path. The fun starts when you want your scripts to load other scripts, or libraries or whatever from inside the starkit file. You have to get used to idioms like: file join [file dirname [info script]] myscript.tcl for relative pathnames, unless you are absolutely sure of what your script is called and where it will live in your directory hierarchy (one of the neater tricks with starkits is making them behave differently depending on the name they have). Kitten is nothing more than a large number of extensions bundled up in a starkit for convenience. One of the attractions of starkits is that they make deployment manageable by keeping everything in a wrapper, rather than distributed in several places in a file system. Kitten makes it easy to select the extensions you need for a particular piece of work - I don't think in general one would choose to use it as it stands as part of a finished project. In my experience (we've been using starkits under their previous name of scripted documents for a couple of years now, and we use them exclusively for delivering software onto naive users' desktops), the things you have to be careful with are idioms for referring to files within the starkit, and ensuring that pkgIndex.tcl files are correct and correctly placed. If you want to try a live public system delivered in this way, www.careerdemon.com is a careers guidance assessment system, where the server is tclhttpd wrapped up in a starkit with some custom code, and the client is a starkit whose content changes over time in conversation with the server. But don't try unwrapping the client - you'll find that various bits of the innards are encrypted. This way, the user only has two files to deal with or delete, and we treat the starkit as a container whose contents change from time to time. There is great ingenuity in the way the starkit method has been put together, and also great simplicity - it's the only way I know of putting a complete web server on a single floppy in two files. From acollin1@csc.com Thu Jul 25 17:59:36 2002 Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com (amer-mta02.csc.com [20.137.2.248]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PMxZa18138 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:59:35 -0500 Received: from amer-mta02.csc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g6PN1H215877 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from csc.com (va-fch32.csc.com [20.6.39.233]) by amer-mta02.csc.com (Switch-2.2.2/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id g6PN1H215871 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 19:01:17 -0400 (EDT) To: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4a July 24, 2000 Message-ID: From: "Alan E Collins" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:35:20 -0700 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on VA-FCH32/SRV/CSC(Release 5.0.8 |June 18, 2001) at 07/25/2002 06:49:15 PM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Starkit] Starkit/Starpack startup howto Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I tried that method of invocation (myeditor -- file.tcl) with the same result. I read in the wiki, that the starpack searches for a main.tcl script in the directory with the boot.tcl script on startup. This is suppose to characterize a custom tclkit (starpack). If found, control is relinquished to the main.tcl script. This is not happening with my application. Alan Collins acollin1@csc.com From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Jul 25 18:40:26 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6PNeQa19643 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 18:40:26 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA21210 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:25 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA06887 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:41 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC82S4; Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3D408C66.C8DF3E7@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:22 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Blinkhorn CC: "Larry W. Virden" , starkit@equi4.com, steve@sole.prd.co.uk Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <200207251711.SAA09352@sole.prd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Thanks for the reply. First I am building on Solaris and HP (not Windos,Linux or MacOS) which means I'm sort of on the edge of where things work and Kitten is useless to me. My work is aimed at first developing a build environment where I can down load an extension, build it and add it to a Kitten like metakit for use by other developers, and second to convert existing applications to the starkit approach. Existing applications use tcl/tk/itcl/itk/iwidgets/tclx. The difficulties I am having continue to change as I solve one problem and new ones show up. About half of them are related to tclkit, starkit, etc. while the other half is related to my environment. The first round of problems was getting all the packages to build on HP (i.e. tcl8.4/tk8.4/itcl/kit/vfs/zlib). This was a problem because the genkit doesn't support HP and there was a bug in the tcl.m4. I have reported the bug and I believe it has been fixed. I expected the Solaris build to work since it was supported but the mk build failed during configure. I finally (just today) traced it back to g++ shared library problem on our network (we don't normally do C++ coding so g++ is seldom used). Back on the HP side. Creating a minimal script is not a problem. The test case I used was the BWidget demo. A this point I thought I had an understanding of path resolution but there were still surprizes. I tried to do a "package require Itk" and got a "can't find package Itk". The code was installed in lib just like the BWidgets package so I thought it should work but it didn't. I decided to run with out wrapping to figure out what was happening. I determined that "lappend auto_path [file join $root lib itk3.3]" needed to be added to the code so it would find the package. With this added to the code I then got a "Can't find a usable itk.tcl in the <..snip..>set the environment variable ITK_LIBRARY<..snip..>" so I added "set env(ITK_LIBRARY) [file join $root lib itk3.3]". At this point the tclkit executable loaded the Itk package from the .vfs tree and seemed to work ok with the Iwidgets catalog application. Thinking that I now had something that should work I wrapped the .vfs into a starkit and tried running it which resulted in the following error. /usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla20568 /usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied Apparently the loading of the shared object isn't working after it is wrapped. This is as far as I have gotten. I now need to rebuild gcc on the Solaris systems, get tclkit to build and seed it the load command works on solaris. There are still many issues that need to be resolved with the tclkit, starkit, starpack system but that has not damped my enthusiasm for the starkit project. I hope this helps you understand some of my issues. Best regards, Tom Krehbiel From nicolasb@maich.gr Fri Jul 26 02:34:33 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6Q7YWa04135 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 02:34:33 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Fri Jul 26 11:00:41 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D40FC4A.9070803@maich.gr> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:37:46 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tom Krehbiel CC: "Larry W. Virden" , starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <20020725103022.AAB28985@cas.org> <3D402951.72953540@motorola.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I've put up some instructions that walk someone through building startkit/packs under the following url http://www.maich.gr/starkit Hope this helps a bit...I'll try to put it up on the wiki if I have a chance, or someone else feel free.... regards, nicolas boretos > My understanding is that Kitten is just a prototype so I'm inclined not to spend much time on figuring out how to make it work. It > has many problems, not the least of which is that there is no defined structure either for Kitten itself or the packages it > contains. I think our time needs to be spent on gathering documenting information about how to build a starkit and make it work. So > far I have had no success in this regard. A build system that can walk a user through the process is sorely needed. I also think > there will be an need for defining some standard testing for something like Kitten. > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > > . > > From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 26 04:53:41 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6Q9rea09242 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 04:53:40 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id KAA11507; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:53:28 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200207260953.KAA11507@sole.prd.co.uk> To: Tom Krehbiel cc: Steve Blinkhorn , "Larry W. Virden" , starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 25 Jul 2002 16:40:22 PDT." <3D408C66.C8DF3E7@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:53:28 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Do you have or can you get access to a machine with one of the well-supported OSs? I think you may be hitting two different sorts of problem, one connected to building tclkit, the other to do with building starkits. The Windows, Linux and BSD/OS builds I know to be solid enough out of the box, and building tclkit manually is tricky until you get the hang of it. I think getting some experience with starkits on a known-good platform would be time well spent. However, it does look to me that the starkit-related problems you are having are in the general area where I have experienced difficulties myself. So here are some suggestions of things to try. 1. Put any "package require" statements in the main.tcl script in the top level of the VFS. Always "package require starkit" and "package require Tk". If you have a standard Tcl/Tk installation on your system, you can sometimes find that you are accessing files from there when you test before wrapping which are not visible to the wrapped starkit. 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. 3. Make very sure your pkgIndex.tcl files are correct (running "pkg_mkIndex ." works for me). 4. Always test by running "tclkit mystarkit.vfs/main.tcl" from the directory where mystarkit.vfs sits. That way you are more likely to get sensible error messages. 5. If you find it necessary to do 'puts debugging', use a disk file (i.e. outside the starkit) for your debugging messages, and always flush every message to disk straight away - it's easy to write inside the starkit by accident, and then you will think your file is lost. 6. Remember that hardly any other programs you have are VFS-aware: trying to exec some program or other that is in or refers to files inside the starkit will fail. You need to write them out as real disk files first. 7. Don't do a mega-starkit with lots of bells and whistles as your first project. It takes a little time (and humility too) to get an intuitive understanding of how the whole thing works. Start small, with perhaps just one script and one extension, learn how to use the method that way, then gradually extend. 8. Make a note of the insights you have as you gain experience and post them on the list. I'm one of the people who have been quite closely involved in getting the whole tclkit/starkit/starpack project to its present state, and we realise that there are things we take for granted that may stump a newcomer, but we can't know what they are unless you tell us - we're just too close to it all. Be reassured that starkits are not flakey and untried, some quite complex ones are in daily widespread use, though most of the people using them will never have heard of them. We have had problems that seem to resurface now and then - crash-on-exit under NT4.0 plagued me for a while - but once you get the hang of them starkits make life very much easier. I can't remember when I last used an ordinary Tcl/Tk installation, which says quite a lot. Having said that, it is the case that most of the development work was done on Linux, with significant attention to Win32, and my use has been on BSD/OS for development and Win32 for target systems. It is always possible that other Unices have problems we have not seen yet. From lvirden@cas.org Fri Jul 26 05:17:24 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QAHOa10323 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 05:17:24 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6QAHGO13330 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6QAHH628822; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:17:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020726061717.AAB28102@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-Reply-To: <200207260953.KAA11507@sole.prd.co.uk> of Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:53:28 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: (Probably not necessary to keep Cc'ing people - I know it results in me getting two copies of everything...) From: Steve Blinkhorn > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. The default auto_path for tclkit is EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib/tcl8.4 EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib What is the directory structure , from the program's point of view, of code in a starkit ? This is one of the basic issues that confuses me - to build tcl code, you have to specify the directory from which the extension is going to be executed - I don't know what to specify for --prefix and --exec_prefix . -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Jul 26 11:12:23 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QGCNa26032 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:12:23 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA00594 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:12:22 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA17172 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:12:21 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8JHY; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:12:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4174E5.28ADA8D5@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:12:21 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Blinkhorn CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <200207260953.KAA11507@sole.prd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, The directory structure I am using looks like this: test.vfs -> main.tcl (file) -> bin (dir) -> demos (dir) -> bwidget (dir) -> demo.tcl (file) -> iwidgets (dir) -> catalog (file) -> include (dir) -> itk.h (file) -> itkDecls.h (file) -> lib (dir) -> bwidget (dir) -> {lots of files + pkgIndex.tcl} -> itk3.3 (dir) -> Archetype.itk (file) -> Widget.itk (file) -> libitk3.3.sl (file) -> pkgIndex.tcl (file) -> Toplevel.itk (file) -> itk.tcl (file) -> libitkstub3.3.a (file) -> tclIndex (file) > Do you have or can you get access to a machine with one of the > well-supported OSs? No. > 1. Put any "package require" statements in the main.tcl script in the My main.tcl script is where I put package requires. > top level of the VFS. Always "package require starkit" and "package I was not aware that I need a "package require starkit". I started up tclkit and did package require starkit and it returned 1.0. I then added it to my main.tcl, wrapped it and got a "can't find package starkit". > require Tk". If you have a standard Tcl/Tk installation on your > system, you can sometimes find that you are accessing files from there > when you test before wrapping which are not visible to the wrapped > starkit. I'm aware of this problem, have had it in the past but haven't fully tested for it yet with tclkit/starkit. > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. As you can see from above that is what I have done but it doesn't seem to be searching lib. > 3. Make very sure your pkgIndex.tcl files are correct (running > "pkg_mkIndex ." works for me). I haven't created any other than those that come with the packages. > 4. Always test by running "tclkit mystarkit.vfs/main.tcl" from the > directory where mystarkit.vfs sits. That way you are more likely to > get sensible error messages. This is what I have been doing. After I get the code working "unwrapped" I then wrap it and it gives me the load problem. The load problem (on HP, haven't got mk built on Sun yet) is strange since critcl was working a few weeks back. > 5. If you find it necessary to do 'puts debugging', use a disk file > (i.e. outside the starkit) for your debugging messages, and always > flush every message to disk straight away - it's easy to write inside > the starkit by accident, and then you will think your file is lost. Haven't had a need for this yet since I can't load the shared libraries. > 6. Remember that hardly any other programs you have are VFS-aware: > trying to exec some program or other that is in or refers to files > inside the starkit will fail. You need to write them out as real > disk files first. ditto > 7. Don't do a mega-starkit with lots of bells and whistles as your > first project. It takes a little time (and humility too) to get an > intuitive understanding of how the whole thing works. Start small, > with perhaps just one script and one extension, learn how to use the > method that way, then gradually extend. This is what I am doing. > 8. Make a note of the insights you have as you gain experience and > post them on the list. I'm one of the people who have been quite > closely involved in getting the whole tclkit/starkit/starpack project > to its present state, and we realise that there are things we take for > granted that may stump a newcomer, but we can't know what they are > unless you tell us - we're just too close to it all. Your help and advice is appreciated. > Be reassured that starkits are not flakey and untried, some quite > complex ones are in daily widespread use, though most of the people > using them will never have heard of them. We have had problems that > seem to resurface now and then - crash-on-exit under NT4.0 plagued me > for a while - but once you get the hang of them starkits make life > very much easier. I can't remember when I last used an ordinary > Tcl/Tk installation, which says quite a lot. I really like the vfs/metakit method of solving the wrapping problem because it opens up so many other doors. I am commited to making it work if it can be done. > Having said that, it is the case that most of the development work was > done on Linux, with significant attention to Win32, and my use has > been on BSD/OS for development and Win32 for target systems. It is > always possible that other Unices have problems we have not seen yet. This issue isn't just at the tclkit/metakit level it also exists at the tcl/tk and extentions level which is part of my difficulty (am never quite sure where the problem is coming from). Thanks for your reply. Tom Krehbiel. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Jul 26 11:23:30 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QGNUa26630 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:23:30 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA01652 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:22:19 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA02422 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:22:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8JJF; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:23:29 -0700 Message-ID: <3D417781.60AEC662@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:23:29 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <20020726061717.AAB28102@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. > > The default auto_path for tclkit is > EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib/tcl8.4 EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib > > What is the directory structure , from the program's point of view, of code > in a starkit ? This is one of the basic issues that confuses me - to build > tcl code, you have to specify the directory from which the extension is > going to be executed - I don't know what to specify for --prefix and > --exec_prefix . My assumption is that it doesn't make any difference providing the the package that is being built populates "lib" under the prefix. Larry's question is valid however because this is an assumption that needs to be clarified by someone who knows. My current method of adding an extension to a .vfs is to build the extension using some convenient prefix (I don't use --exec_prefix) and then copy the results into the .vfs tree. If this is not the correct way to do things then I would like to know what the correct procedure is. Regards, Tom Krehbiel From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 26 11:36:01 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QGa0a27160 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:36:01 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA13190; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:35:58 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200207261635.RAA13190@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com cc: steve@prd.co.uk Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Jul 2002 06:17:17 EDT." <20020726061717.AAB28102@cas.org> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:35:58 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>"Larry W. Virden" said: > (Probably not necessary to keep Cc'ing people - I know it results in me > getting two copies of everything...) Agreed, but incoming stuff only has the list ID in the cc: field, so sometimes inadvertence triumphs over economy... > > > From: Steve Blinkhorn > > > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. > > The default auto_path for tclkit is > EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib/tcl8.4 EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib > > What is the directory structure , from the program's point of view, of code > in a starkit ? This is one of the basic issues that confuses me - to build > tcl code, you have to specify the directory from which the extension is > going to be executed - I don't know what to specify for --prefix and > --exec_prefix . > -- Yes, this is probably the single most slippery thing about the whole starkit enterprise. Don't take what follows as definitive - I'm really only another user - but I think I have it right. 1. Simple filenames, i.e. with no leading path information, are interpreted as belonging in the current directory. Depending on whether you explicitly cd in the course of execution this may be either a real directory (your current directory when you issued your command line, or the equivalent if you're running from a Win32 desktop) or a directory in the VFS. You have to keep track of where you are, and relative pathnames can be awkward at times. 2. To specify a pathname inside a starkit you can: a) file join [file dirname [info script]], which should return the path to the directory in which the script currently executing resides, but be careful when using 'source'. b) file join [file dirname [info nameofexecutable]], which should return the directory in which a starpack (single file) resides. c) early in the execution of main.tcl, just do [pwd] to find where you are in absolute terms on the machine you are running on. So far as tclkit is concerned, your starkit is just an extension to your directory tree (but remember other programs are not VFS-aware).. So mystarkit looks like a directory rather than a plain file in my Unix file system so far as tclkit is concerned. /usr/home/steve/mystarkit/main.tcl is the script that runs, /usr/home/steve/mystarkit/lib/myextension.so is a shared library containing a binary extension. And so on. Is this the clarification you're looking for, or is it something else? 3. So far as extensions are concerned, use the package mechanism. For instance, in one of my starkits, my main code runs from a bin subdirectory, which has next to it a lib subdirectory. To make sure the extensions are picked up, I run pkg_mkIndex inside the lib subdirectory before wrapping, and ensure that it is seen by this line: lappend auto_path [file join [file dirname [info script]] .. lib] We're beginning to see some local culture emerge slowly concerning what to put where, but one of the recent simplifications is that there must always be a main.tcl in the top-level of the VFS which is the script that is run on startup. bin and lib subdirectories are obvious additions, and I daresay we'll see image and etc subdirectories becoming commonplace. From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 26 11:48:02 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QGm1a27735 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:48:01 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA13256 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:48:00 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200207261648.RAA13256@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Jul 2002 09:23:29 PDT." <3D417781.60AEC662@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:48:00 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>Tom Krehbiel said: > > > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > > > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > > > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. > > > > The default auto_path for tclkit is > > EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib/tcl8.4 EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib > > > > What is the directory structure , from the program's point of view, of cod e > > in a starkit ? This is one of the basic issues that confuses me - to buil d > > tcl code, you have to specify the directory from which the extension is > > going to be executed - I don't know what to specify for --prefix and > > --exec_prefix . > > My assumption is that it doesn't make any difference providing the the packa ge > that is being built populates "lib" under the prefix. Larry's question is > valid however because this is an assumption that needs to be clarified by > someone who knows. > > My current method of adding an extension to a .vfs is to build the extension > using some convenient prefix (I don't use --exec_prefix) and then copy the > results into the .vfs tree. If this is not the correct way to do things then > I would like to know what the correct procedure is. > This is where I may be at a disadvantage - I don't have experience of the problem. The extensions I typically use include BWidgets, various stuff from tcllib, all the stuff in tclhttpd, and some binary extensions of my own that I load explicitly to provide things like encryption. I haven't come across the need to use --prefix and --exec_prefix, so I wonder what I'm missing. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Jul 26 12:10:42 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QHAga28982 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:10:42 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id KAA22895 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:10:45 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA06689 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:10:40 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8JQC; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:10:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3D41828E.752CFF83@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:10:38 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <200207261648.RAA13256@sole.prd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Do you mean you run configure with out using the option (i.e. you have root access and use the default locations) or you just don't built any extentions (which you seem to imply)? Tom Krehbiel > > >>>Tom Krehbiel said: > > > > 2. Explicitly "lappend auto_path" the locations of any extensions - > > > > this ought not to be strictly necessary if you put your extensions in > > > > a lib subdirectory in the VFS, but it doesn't do any harm. > > > > > > The default auto_path for tclkit is > > > EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib/tcl8.4 EXECUTABLE_DIR/tclkit/lib > > > > > > What is the directory structure , from the program's point of view, of cod > e > > > in a starkit ? This is one of the basic issues that confuses me - to buil > d > > > tcl code, you have to specify the directory from which the extension is > > > going to be executed - I don't know what to specify for --prefix and > > > --exec_prefix . > > > > My assumption is that it doesn't make any difference providing the the packa > ge > > that is being built populates "lib" under the prefix. Larry's question is > > valid however because this is an assumption that needs to be clarified by > > someone who knows. > > > > My current method of adding an extension to a .vfs is to build the extension > > using some convenient prefix (I don't use --exec_prefix) and then copy the > > results into the .vfs tree. If this is not the correct way to do things then > > I would like to know what the correct procedure is. > > > > This is where I may be at a disadvantage - I don't have experience of > the problem. The extensions I typically use include BWidgets, > various stuff from tcllib, all the stuff in tclhttpd, and some binary > extensions of my own that I load explicitly to provide things like > encryption. I haven't come across the need to use --prefix and > --exec_prefix, so I wonder what I'm missing. From lvirden@cas.org Fri Jul 26 12:26:39 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QHQda29898 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 12:26:39 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6QHQVO12088 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:26:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6QHQWW03919; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:26:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020726132632.AAB3886@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 26 Jul 2002 10:10:38 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Re: --prefix, ... The configure has a default value for --prefix if one isn't specified at configuration time. During the configuration, the prefix is just just one more value that is expanded into the Makefiles. Then, depending on what the author of the extension does, that value may be embedded into the shared library, into the pkgIndex.tcl, or just used by the Makefile as a target destination. Sounds like to me that most people building starkits are not worrying about that value, and that they then, by hand, move the pieces around into the appropriate directory, hand generate the pkgIndex.tcl, etc. Is that pretty much the picture? Nothing wrong with that I guess - just wasn't clear from the pages how that should happen. For instance, an alternative would be to point the configure via --prefix to the program.vfs directory, build the code, then run make install and let the Makefile put things where they expect to be within the .vfs directory. I'm kind of leaning towards that method - except that I probably will use a really weird directory name so that I can then look through what was installed to see what pieces have the pathname embedded into them. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Jul 26 13:05:58 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QI5wa32216 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:05:58 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA00686 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:06:00 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA04390 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:04:27 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8JWW; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:05:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3D418F82.F1D053C2@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 11:05:54 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <20020726132632.AAB3886@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry, > The configure has a default value for --prefix if one isn't specified > at configuration time. During the configuration, the prefix is just just one > more value that is expanded into the Makefiles. Then, depending on > what the author of the extension does, that value may be embedded into the > shared library, into the pkgIndex.tcl, or just used by the Makefile as > a target destination. If the shared library has imbedded paths then I don't think there is any way to fix the problem, this is why the stubs interface stuff was introduced into tcl. It is ofcourse possible to write an extension that doesn't use stubs in which case it wouldn't work. > Sounds like to me that most people building starkits are not worrying about > that value, and that they then, by hand, move the pieces around into the > appropriate directory, hand generate the pkgIndex.tcl, etc. I don't think that it is neccessary to mess with the pkgIndex.tcl file because it uses a variable "dir" that is set at run time. As far as I can tell The stuff in Kitten was just copied into the .vfs. This point however needs to be clarified when Jean-Claude returns from vacation. > Is that pretty much the picture? Nothing wrong with that I guess - just > wasn't clear from the pages how that should happen. > > For instance, an alternative would be to point the configure via --prefix > to the program.vfs directory, build the code, then run make install and > let the Makefile put things where they expect to be within the .vfs directory. > > I'm kind of leaning towards that method - except that I probably will > use a really weird directory name so that I can then look through what > was installed to see what pieces have the pathname embedded into them. I don't want to use the above method because if I have many different applications, I only want to build the extensions once per platform. Regards, Tom Krehbiel From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 26 13:31:03 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QIV2a01257 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:31:02 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id TAA13657; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:30:59 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207261830.TAA13657@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? To: tom.krehbiel@motorola.com (Tom Krehbiel) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:30:59 +0100 (GMT/BST) Cc: starkit@equi4.com In-Reply-To: <3D418F82.F1D053C2@motorola.com> from "Tom Krehbiel" at Jul 26, 2 11:05:54 am Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Larry, > > > The configure has a default value for --prefix if one isn't specified > > at configuration time. During the configuration, the prefix is just just one > > more value that is expanded into the Makefiles. Then, depending on > > what the author of the extension does, that value may be embedded into the > > shared library, into the pkgIndex.tcl, or just used by the Makefile as > > a target destination. > > If the shared library has imbedded paths then I don't think there is any way to fix the problem, this is why the stubs interface > stuff was introduced into tcl. It is ofcourse possible to write an extension that doesn't use stubs in which case it wouldn't work. > > > Sounds like to me that most people building starkits are not worrying about > > that value, and that they then, by hand, move the pieces around into the > > appropriate directory, hand generate the pkgIndex.tcl, etc. Well, the way I do it is to assemble the files in the .vfs directory by hand, then run pkg_mkIndex as appropriate. I don't think you should be compiling extensions, as it were, direct into the .vfs - it never occurred to me that one would want to do that. I'm getting quite puzzled by this whole thread: perhaps we need a single, simple concrete example rather than something modelled on kitten which is far from typical. Treat a lib subdirectory inside a starkit the way you would treat /usr/local/lib, put the .so there, put any scripts in a suitable subdirectory, create the pkgIndex.tcl to suit and take it from there. > > I don't think that it is neccessary to mess with the pkgIndex.tcl file because it uses a variable "dir" that is set at run time. As > far as I can tell The stuff in Kitten was just copied into the .vfs. This point however needs to be clarified when Jean-Claude > returns from vacation. > > > Is that pretty much the picture? Nothing wrong with that I guess - just > > wasn't clear from the pages how that should happen. > > > > For instance, an alternative would be to point the configure via --prefix > > to the program.vfs directory, build the code, then run make install and > > let the Makefile put things where they expect to be within the .vfs directory. > > > > I'm kind of leaning towards that method - except that I probably will > > use a really weird directory name so that I can then look through what > > was installed to see what pieces have the pathname embedded into them. > > I don't want to use the above method because if I have many different applications, I only want to build the extensions once per > platform. > > Regards, > Tom Krehbiel > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > -- Steve Blinkhorn From lvirden@cas.org Fri Jul 26 13:36:55 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QIasa01571 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 13:36:55 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6QIalO02897 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6QIalI04964; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 14:36:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020726143647.AAB4948@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? In-Reply-To: <200207261830.TAA13657@sole.prd.co.uk> of Fri, 26 Jul 2002 19:30:59 +0100 (GMT/BST) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: Steve Blinkhorn > I'm getting > quite puzzled by this whole thread: perhaps we need a single, simple > concrete example rather than something modelled on kitten which is far > from typical. Treat a lib subdirectory inside a starkit the way you > would treat /usr/local/lib, put the .so there, put any scripts in a > suitable subdirectory, create the pkgIndex.tcl to suit and take it > from there. And there's my point of confusion - I would NEVER put .so's, scripts, etc. into /usr/local/lib by hand - I would use the make install, because I have seen too many times Tcl install scripts do all sorts of bizarre things (sed scripts hacking in paths into the .so files, etc.) ... -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Jul 26 16:09:29 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QL9Sa09191 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:09:28 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id WAA14123 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:09:27 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207262109.WAA14123@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:09:26 +0100 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <20020726143647.AAB4948@cas.org> from "Larry W. Virden" at Jul 26, 2 02:36:47 pm Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > > From: Steve Blinkhorn > > > I'm getting > > quite puzzled by this whole thread: perhaps we need a single, simple > > concrete example rather than something modelled on kitten which is far > > from typical. Treat a lib subdirectory inside a starkit the way you > > would treat /usr/local/lib, put the .so there, put any scripts in a > > suitable subdirectory, create the pkgIndex.tcl to suit and take it > > from there. > > And there's my point of confusion - I would NEVER put .so's, scripts, etc. > into /usr/local/lib by hand - I would use the make install, because I have > seen too many times Tcl install scripts do all sorts of bizarre things > (sed scripts hacking in paths into the .so files, etc.) ... And I don't trust make install unless I've worked out in detail just what it's going to do - it doesn't come with any guarantee of safety, and it may not suit the way my machine is organised. I'm genuinely intrigued by this: I'd always rather do installation a piece at a time by hand so I know how the whole is organised. If I make my own extension, I have to sort out the installation details, so it seems neither strange nor dangerous to keep control of a starkit by arranging the files manually and using tools like pkg_mkIndex to stitch it all together. However, I suppose there's no good reason why you shouldn't specify places in the .vfs hierarchy as the targets for the installation, but you need to be very sure that absolute pathnames aren't thereby inserted into the configuration. You really do have to specify paths relative to the place the starkit is installed (which could be anywhere in principle), hence the need for constructs like file join [file dirname [info script]] ..., which, which when called from the top level main.tcl gives you just that information. There's no reason extension designers will have taken that into account when they built their installation scripts, so you have to do it for them. I suppose it may become normal for there to be a special installation option for starkits, but I can't see it any time soon. I don't recall this issue arising when jcw, Steve Landers and I were discussing what basic information a newcomer would need to get going, and I suspect it's an unspoken set of assumptions we hadn't anticipated. The critical issue is whether the installation process inserts absolute pathnames, or indeed pathnames relative to anywhere on a real disk. If it does, you're sunk. The whole point of the tclkit+starkit combination is that it's self-contained and can go anywhere whereas classic Tcl/Tk deployment assumes that everything is stored in known places. Think of it like this. You can put a typical starkit and tclkit on a floppy, take them to any machine running a compatible OS, put them anywhere on that machine's file system - or indeed leave them on the floppy -and run without difficulty or the need for any other supporting files. Tclkit knows where its own extensions live (tclkit is itself a starkit), your starkit needs to know where its extensions live, there is no presupposition about how those files are arranged other than that the top level main.tcl is to be interpreted at launch, unlike some other wrapping methods there isn't an enforced or assumed layout. So you have to get the pkgIndex.tcl scripts right, by hand if need be, if you want to use the package mechanism. Sorry to go on at such length, I just want to make sure I explain myself well. It's perfectly possible to build a starkit with no subdirectory structure, i.e. with everything in the top level of the .vfs before wrapping, or with a complex and sophisticated subdirectory structure: your choice. Nothing is mandated by default except that main.tcl script. We thought that was an advantage.... -- Steve Blinkhorn From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Jul 26 18:08:33 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6QN8Xa13493 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 18:08:33 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA12034 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:08:32 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA00341 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:07:04 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8KRZ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:08:10 -0700 Message-ID: <3D41D65A.69727344@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:08:10 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? References: <200207262109.WAA14123@sole.prd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Blinkhorn wrote: > > > > > > > From: Steve Blinkhorn > > > > > I'm getting > > > quite puzzled by this whole thread: perhaps we need a single, simple > > > concrete example rather than something modelled on kitten which is far > > > from typical. Treat a lib subdirectory inside a starkit the way you > > > would treat /usr/local/lib, put the .so there, put any scripts in a > > > suitable subdirectory, create the pkgIndex.tcl to suit and take it > > > from there. > > > > And there's my point of confusion - I would NEVER put .so's, scripts, etc. > > into /usr/local/lib by hand - I would use the make install, because I have > > seen too many times Tcl install scripts do all sorts of bizarre things > > (sed scripts hacking in paths into the .so files, etc.) ... > > And I don't trust make install unless I've worked out in detail just > what it's going to do - it doesn't come with any guarantee of safety, Installs using the gnu tools is normally safe now days. You have indicated that you do your builds and installs as root which is a bad practice for two reasons. 1) The build and install can trash your system 2) It won't find problem that customers will have if they need to build your code. This of course is import for distribution to other developers and not so much for bound executables. > and it may not suit the way my machine is organised. I'm genuinely > intrigued by this: I'd always rather do installation a piece at a time > by hand so I know how the whole is organised. If I make my own > extension, I have to sort out the installation details, so it seems > neither strange nor dangerous to keep control of a starkit by > arranging the files manually and using tools like pkg_mkIndex to > stitch it all together. > > However, I suppose there's no good reason why you shouldn't specify > places in the .vfs hierarchy as the targets for the installation, but > you need to be very sure that absolute pathnames aren't thereby > inserted into the configuration. You really do have to specify paths > relative to the place the starkit is installed (which could be > anywhere in principle), hence the need for constructs like > file join [file dirname [info script]] ..., which, which when called from > the top level main.tcl gives you just that information. There's no reason > extension designers will have taken that into account when they built > their installation scripts, so you have to do it for them. I suppose > it may become normal for there to be a special installation option for > starkits, but I can't see it any time soon. > > I don't recall this issue arising when jcw, Steve Landers and I were > discussing what basic information a newcomer would need to get going, > and I suspect it's an unspoken set of assumptions we hadn't > anticipated. The critical issue is whether the installation process > inserts absolute pathnames, or indeed pathnames relative to anywhere > on a real disk. If it does, you're sunk. The whole point of the > tclkit+starkit combination is that it's self-contained and can go Actually tclkit and there for tclkit+starkit are not completely self contained. If you use ldd (or chatr on HP) you will see that the executable still contains hard paths to the OS libraries. This is normally not a problem but it is a potential source of confusion if you distribute to an environment that has a nonstandard OS installation. > anywhere whereas classic Tcl/Tk deployment assumes that everything is > stored in known places. Think of it like this. You can put a > typical starkit and tclkit on a floppy, take them to any machine > running a compatible OS, put them anywhere on that machine's file > system - or indeed leave them on the floppy -and run without > difficulty or the need for any other supporting files. Tclkit knows > where its own extensions live (tclkit is itself a starkit), your > starkit needs to know where its extensions live, there is no > presupposition about how those files are arranged other than that the > top level main.tcl is to be interpreted at launch, unlike some other > wrapping methods there isn't an enforced or assumed layout. So you > have to get the pkgIndex.tcl scripts right, by hand if need be, if you > want to use the package mechanism. > > Sorry to go on at such length, I just want to make sure I explain > myself well. It's perfectly possible to build a starkit with no > subdirectory structure, i.e. with everything in the top level of the > .vfs before wrapping, or with a complex and sophisticated subdirectory > structure: your choice. Nothing is mandated by default except that > main.tcl script. We thought that was an advantage.... From jcw@equi4.com Fri Jul 26 21:09:34 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@i219-066.nv.iinet.net.au [203.59.219.66]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g6R29Qa16922 for ; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 21:09:33 -0500 Received: (qmail 5694 invoked by uid 8); 27 Jul 2002 02:09:21 -0000 Received: from pc-00061 (192.168.1.61, claiming to be "[192.168.1.61]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdbeSKfp; Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:09:15 EDT From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 10:08:51 +0800 Message-Id: <20020727020851.29317@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D41D65A.69727344@motorola.com> References: <3D41D65A.69727344@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0b3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: (I noticed the discussion, and though I'm on vacation and unable to follow closely and track things on a regular basis, I thought I'd jump in while I can...) >> > From: Steve Blinkhorn >> > >> > > I'm getting >> > > quite puzzled by this whole thread: perhaps we need a single, simple >> > > concrete example rather than something modelled on kitten which is far >> > > from typical. Treat a lib subdirectory inside a starkit the way you >> > > would treat /usr/local/lib, put the .so there, put any scripts in a >> > > suitable subdirectory, create the pkgIndex.tcl to suit and take it >> > > from there. One way to do that, is to follow the example on Then, look at the unwrapped hello.vfs/main.tcl and see how it works. Part of the confusion may be that things have changed in the last 3 weeks, and that kitten is indeed a one-off messy trial, no more. Let me try to clarify a few points: - the "scripdoc" package is still part of tclkit, but deprecated - likewise, "myapp.vfs/bin/main.tcl" can still be used but it's deprecated - the latest "sdx.kit" creates a slightly different file header, and works with a new package called "starkit" (no longer "package require scripdoc") - the new starkit package is much simpler and more powerful, it hinges on the fact that startup always goes through "myapp.vfs/main.tcl", whether launched as starkit, as starpack, or in unpacked mode - the first two lines of "myapp.vfs/main.tcl" are now usually: package require starkit if {[starkit::startup] eq "sourced"} return - the rest can be anything, but I tend to add a single line: package require app-myapp then put my own code in a package called "app-myapp" (s/myapp//) - the main effect of those first two lines is to extend auto_path with a directory "myapp.vfs/lib/", so packages there are found automatically The essential aspect of all these changes is that *all* uses of such a starkit, whether wrapped, starpacked, or unpacked, is that the code in main.tcl always gets executed, so you can rely on auto_path *always* being set up right. In a nutshell: if you use the latest CVS code of tclkit, and follow the above, you'll have the least confusing setup IMO. The old startup mode, the old "sdx.bin", and the "scripdoc" package are there just for backward compatibility reasons. Several more notes: - sdx.kit creates a read-only starkit by default now, use the new "- writable" option when running wrap if you want to be able to write into the VFS mounted starkit (this is why "kitten -u" is broken for the time being) - the read-only mounting of starkits is a new design choice, I'm looking into a way to re-mount starkits as r/w during use, but it's not there yet - the "if {[starkit::startup] ...} return" line is a trick so that one can source a starkit, and all it'll do is mount, set up auto_path, and return - hence make its packages available without actually running the starkit. - keep in mind that mounted starkits can end up being run anywhere, so *anything* that relies on fixed paths will break - it's a consequence of letting users decide where to run starkits (and it means shared libs can NOT assume anything, nor have fixed paths built in) - hard paths will need some serious work, if some platforms really need them (some sort of on-the-fly patching, while they get copied out to temp, perhaps) - building shared libs has not been well-defined yet, so far I just build in a special basic Tcl/Tk installation area I keep around on each platform, and then move things into my blah.vfs/lib/ areas, fixing pkgIndex.tcl files and such if the extensions were doing nasty things - the problems with itcl/itk/iwidgets are probably caused by the fact that tclkit includes itcl 3.3, while kitten still has old 3.2 builds - it'll be fixed once kitten gets re-done properly - the scripdoc::extendPath mechanism is still available, but deprecated, a new structure is being worked out, which meshes more with what CriTcl does - lastly, may I suggest that if you are wondering about specific aspects of what tclkits or starkits are doing, then please look inside... all you need to do is "cp tclkit tcopy; sdx unwrap tcopy" then look at "tcopy.vfs/lib/vfs/*.tcl" to see what is going on inside, it's all plain Tcl, no magic whatsoever >> anywhere whereas classic Tcl/Tk deployment assumes that everything is >> stored in known places. Think of it like this. You can put a >> typical starkit and tclkit on a floppy, take them to any machine >> running a compatible OS, put them anywhere on that machine's file >> system - or indeed leave them on the floppy -and run without >> difficulty or the need for any other supporting files. Tclkit knows >> where its own extensions live (tclkit is itself a starkit), your >> starkit needs to know where its extensions live, there is no >> presupposition about how those files are arranged other than that the >> top level main.tcl is to be interpreted at launch, unlike some other >> wrapping methods there isn't an enforced or assumed layout. So you >> have to get the pkgIndex.tcl scripts right, by hand if need be, if you >> want to use the package mechanism. >> >> Sorry to go on at such length, I just want to make sure I explain >> myself well. It's perfectly possible to build a starkit with no >> subdirectory structure, i.e. with everything in the top level of the >> .vfs before wrapping, or with a complex and sophisticated subdirectory >> structure: your choice. Nothing is mandated by default except that >> main.tcl script. We thought that was an advantage.... The above is worth repeating, IMO. All a starkit does, is contain a dir hierarchy (even if just a flat one) which gets "mounted". That mount point happens to be the same spot as the starkit itself - in other words, file "/path/to/my/starkit.kit" ends up becoming *dir* "/path/to/my/ starkit.kit/" while in use, with things like "/path/to/my/starkit.kit/ lib/" being a preferred place to put packages, because that's what "starkit::startup" will set up for you, but it's all 100% wide open and totally scripted/inspectable. The whole problem seems to be that things have become too flexible - we now seem to be moving to standardizing structures so it becomes less confusing. Please don't stop pushing boundaries and rattling the starkit cage, things really need to be worked out further. Nothing is set in stone, and even less has been properly documented. It'd be great if we can hit all the main issues and resolve them before the September 2002 build of what I hope will be Tcl/Tk 8.4 final. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Sat Jul 27 05:43:01 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6RAh0a22863 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 05:43:00 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6RAgrO03203 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:42:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6RAgsJ04440; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:42:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:42:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020727064254.AAB4400@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It appears that, at least in the current kitten, one of the issues that is being addressed is this: lib/extension_name/tcl_scripts lib/arch/Platformname/extension_name/pkgIndex.tcl and shared libraries This is a good construct. It saves you from having full copies of everything installed once for each machine. It does mean that one needs to be cautious about how the pkgIndex.tcl is constructed - you have to have some way of naming the platform that will work on any compatible deployment of that machine (the $::tcl_platform array name for the machine seems best here) and you may have to worry about what OS is being used, and even about incompatibility between OS versions as well. These are all issues for anyone deploying software - starkit doesn't solve the need to think about these things - and no one ever claimed it would. I just want to make certain that people doing this for the first time know to think about these things. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From lvirden@cas.org Sat Jul 27 05:52:01 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6RAq1a22976 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 05:52:01 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6RApsO04066 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6RAptF04536; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:51:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020727065155.AAB4530@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] some changes to kitten that I would suggest Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 1. Move the tix8.2/pkgIndex.tcl into lib/arch/Linux/ directory 2. Move the lib/*.so files into the appropriate lib/arch/ subdirectory - are these Windows or Linux files? 3. Modify the corresponding pkgIndex.tcl files to reflect the move in item 2. This would bring a bit more consistency to the package layout. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From frank@canyon-medical.com Sat Jul 27 06:37:22 2002 Received: from mail3.centurytel.net (mail3.centurytel.net [209.142.136.99]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6RBbLa23418 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:37:21 -0500 Received: from aSqueakSystem (pppoe0005.sm.centurytel.net [209.142.160.134]) by mail3.centurytel.net (8.12.5/8.12.5) with SMTP id g6RBbKak000609 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:37:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <200207271137.g6RBbKak000609@mail3.centurytel.net> X-Mailer: Celeste 2.0.4599 Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 06:23:05 -0600 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Anyone building kitten-like starkits? To: starkit@equi4.com From: Frank Sergeant Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Blinkhorn wrote: > Sorry to go on at such length, I just want to make sure I explain > myself well. No, no, that was great. Thank you. It helps me get a clearer picture of how it all works. -- Frank From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Sat Jul 27 16:38:58 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6RLcva30889 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:38:58 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA27879 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:39:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA21344 for ; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:39:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (RNA020-D1 [172.16.100.122]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8L13; Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:38:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3D4312EF.64FEED33@motorola.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:38:56 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOT45 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout References: <20020727064254.AAB4400@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: "Larry W. Virden" wrote: > It does mean that one needs to be cautious about how the pkgIndex.tcl is > constructed - you have to have some way of naming the platform that will > work on any compatible deployment of that machine (the $::tcl_platform > array name for the machine seems best here) and you may have to worry > about what OS is being used, and even about incompatibility between OS > versions as well. It seems to me that a combination of tcl_platform(os) and tcl_platform(version) would be more appropreate than tcl_platform(machine), if that was what you were suggesting. Tom Krehbiel From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Jul 29 11:22:22 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TGMMa16041 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:22:22 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA07914 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:26 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA19517 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:20 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8MDL; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:16 -0700 Message-ID: <3D456BB8.EEAC9B87@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:22:16 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout References: <20020727064254.AAB4400@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry, > It appears that, at least in the current kitten, one of the issues that > is being addressed is this: > > lib/extension_name/tcl_scripts > lib/arch/Platformname/extension_name/pkgIndex.tcl and shared libraries > > This is a good construct. It saves you from having full copies of everything > installed once for each machine. I would like to propose the following changes to the directory structure. .vfs main.tcl --> bin --> .tcl --> doc --> --> ? ...? --> generic --> --> ? ...? --> lib --> noarch --> --> ? ...? --> --> --> ? ...? where: main.tcl = entry point for the application. Normally would do option processing etc. and then run a script in the bin directory. bin = contains any top level scripts used by the application. doc = Documentation organized on a per package basis. generic = This contains .c and .h source files that are used by the critcl system organized on a per package basis. lib/noarch = This contains platform independent tcl code organized on a per package basis. = "$tcl_platform(os)_$tcl_platform(osVersion)" / = This contains all platform specific files. One of the questions I have is, how do links work inside a starkit? This is an important question because it will be common for several platforms to share the same lib code. As an example: lib --> SunOS_5.7 --> myapp --> SunOS_5.8 --> myapp {link to lib/SunOS_5.7 } Regards, Tom Krehbiel From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Mon Jul 29 11:51:15 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TGpFa18185 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:51:15 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id RAA26801 for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:51:13 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207291651.RAA26801@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 17:51:13 +0100 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <3D456BB8.EEAC9B87@motorola.com> from "Tom Krehbiel" at Jul 29, 2 09:22:16 am Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom, let me answer your question below here. Links *don't* work inside a starkit - not least because they won't work on Win32, so any starkits which, per impossibile, had links in them wouldn't be cross-platform, which rather defeats the object. Remember, starkit is essentially zip technology at the file level. So when you design the layout of a starkit, you do it in such a way that you minimise the number of copies of each file needed. That's why organising things on a per-platform basis should really only be done wrt shared libraries and the like. With binary extensions, for instance, I test for the current platform and tag the appropriate extension onto a filename to load it. So far as I can, I structure the starkit around the logical structure of the scripts, and make sure they do the work of finding and loading the right binaries. One place *symbolic* links are very handy in *building* a starkit was pointed out to me by Steve Landers. It's particularly helpful if you use RCS for revision control. Keep all your scripts, shared libraries etc, in the directory in which your .vfs file is going to live. Build your .vfs by adding symbolic links to the real files. Then when you wrap your .vfs, sdx.kit will make copies of the real files as it builds the tclkit. The *must* be symbolic links - doing this with hard links just causes problems. To build your starkit, write a little shell script like this: co main.tcl (symlinked to mykit.vfs/main.tcl) co mylib.so (symlinked to mykit.vfs/lib/mylib.so) co myscript.tcl (and so on) sdx wrap mykit rm main.tcl rm mylib.so rm myscript.tcl OK, so you wouldn't put mylib.so under RCS in quite that way, but you get the idea. It makes for clearer semantic space in your head and the relevant directory. > > Larry, > > > It appears that, at least in the current kitten, one of the issues that > > is being addressed is this: > > > > lib/extension_name/tcl_scripts > > lib/arch/Platformname/extension_name/pkgIndex.tcl and shared libraries > > > > This is a good construct. It saves you from having full copies of everything > > installed once for each machine. > > I would like to propose the following changes to the directory structure. > > .vfs > main.tcl > --> bin > --> .tcl > --> doc > --> > --> ? ...? > --> generic > --> > --> ? ...? > --> lib > --> noarch > --> > --> ? ...? > --> > --> > --> ? ...? > > where: > main.tcl = entry point for the application. Normally would do option processing etc. and then run a script in the bin directory. > bin = contains any top level scripts used by the application. > doc = Documentation organized on a per package basis. > generic = This contains .c and .h source files that are used by the critcl system organized on a per package basis. > lib/noarch = This contains platform independent tcl code organized on a per package basis. > = "$tcl_platform(os)_$tcl_platform(osVersion)" > / = This contains all platform specific files. > > One of the questions I have is, how do links work inside a starkit? This is an important question because it will be common for > several platforms to share the same lib code. As an example: > > lib > --> SunOS_5.7 > --> myapp > --> SunOS_5.8 > --> myapp {link to lib/SunOS_5.7 } > > Regards, > Tom Krehbiel > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > -- Steve Blinkhorn From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Jul 29 13:59:07 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6TIx7a27344 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:59:07 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA13203 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:59:12 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA03621 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:57:34 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC8MWN; Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:59:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3D459079.3D1B9ACA@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 11:59:05 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout References: <200207291651.RAA26801@sole.prd.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, > Tom, let me answer your question below here. Links *don't* work > inside a starkit - not least because they won't work on Win32, so any > starkits which, per impossibile, had links in them wouldn't be > cross-platform, which rather defeats the object. Remember, starkit > is essentially zip technology at the file level. So when you design > the layout of a starkit, you do it in such a way that you minimise the > number of copies of each file needed. That's why organising things > on a per-platform basis should really only be done wrt shared > libraries and the like. With binary extensions, for instance, I test > for the current platform and tag the appropriate extension onto a > filename to load it. So far as I can, I structure the starkit around > the logical structure of the scripts, and make sure they do the work > of finding and loading the right binaries. My link question need to be answered by the starkit developers. A starkit is not essentially zip technology, zip technology just makes the kit smaller. The heart of the starkit technology is the virtual file system (vfs) interface. This interface may or may not support links and has nothing to do with the os that is being used. I ran an experiment on my unix box and linking does work in starkits under unix at least. The root of my question has to do with how a starkit is processed when it is wrapped. My current understanding is that the contents of .vfs directory is placed in a MetaKit database (which compresses files using zip). The MetaKit is created so that it preserves knowledge of the directory structure. The starkit vfs interface is then used to mount the database and responses to all file system calls (through the mount point) as thought it were talking to a real file system. If links are detected at the time the MetaKit database is created, then it is possible for knowledge about them to be stored in the database and used by the vfs interface (note this is independent of the os). So the question is, does a starkit contain explicit link information? Regards, Tom K. From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Jul 30 04:25:12 2002 Received: from smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6U9PBa07977 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 04:25:12 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost0.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17ZTFe-0003YF-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:25:10 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020730102208.03b3dc70@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:25:09 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout In-Reply-To: <200207291651.RAA26801@sole.prd.co.uk> References: <3D456BB8.EEAC9B87@motorola.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Tom, I'd like to add that links *don't* work inside a starkit now, but they could easily be made to work, if we so desire. This would, of course, depend on that underlying vfs-implementation supporting links. Adding link-support to tclvfs (i.e. vfs.c) would take only about 10 lines of code. Then it would be exposed to Tcl and if mk4vfs could support links then it can be done. So: can the mk4 'filesystem' (be modified to) support links? If it can, then starkits could _easily_ be made to support links. cheers, Vince. At 05:51 PM 7/29/2002 +0100, Steve Blinkhorn wrote: >Tom, let me answer your question below here. Links *don't* work >inside a starkit - not least because they won't work on Win32, so any >starkits which, per impossibile, had links in them wouldn't be >cross-platform, which rather defeats the object. Remember, starkit >is essentially zip technology at the file level. So when you design >the layout of a starkit, you do it in such a way that you minimise the >number of copies of each file needed. That's why organising things >on a per-platform basis should really only be done wrt shared >libraries and the like. With binary extensions, for instance, I test >for the current platform and tag the appropriate extension onto a >filename to load it. So far as I can, I structure the starkit around >the logical structure of the scripts, and make sure they do the work >of finding and loading the right binaries. > >One place *symbolic* links are very handy in *building* a starkit was >pointed out to me by Steve Landers. It's particularly helpful if you >use RCS for revision control. > >Keep all your scripts, shared libraries etc, in the directory in which >your .vfs file is going to live. Build your .vfs by adding symbolic >links to the real files. Then when you wrap your .vfs, sdx.kit will >make copies of the real files as it builds the tclkit. The *must* be >symbolic links - doing this with hard links just causes problems. >To build your starkit, write a little shell script like this: > >co main.tcl (symlinked to mykit.vfs/main.tcl) >co mylib.so (symlinked to mykit.vfs/lib/mylib.so) >co myscript.tcl (and so on) >sdx wrap mykit >rm main.tcl >rm mylib.so >rm myscript.tcl > >OK, so you wouldn't put mylib.so under RCS in quite that way, but you >get the idea. It makes for clearer semantic space in your head and >the relevant directory. > > > > Larry, > > > > > It appears that, at least in the current kitten, one of the issues that > > > is being addressed is this: > > > > > > lib/extension_name/tcl_scripts > > > lib/arch/Platformname/extension_name/pkgIndex.tcl and shared libraries > > > > > > This is a good construct. It saves you from having full copies of > everything > > > installed once for each machine. > > > > I would like to propose the following changes to the directory structure. > > > > .vfs > > main.tcl > > --> bin > > --> .tcl > > --> doc > > --> > > --> ? ...? > > --> generic > > --> > > --> ? ...? > > --> lib > > --> noarch > > --> > > --> ? ...? > > --> > > --> > > --> ? ...? > > > > where: > > main.tcl = entry point for the application. Normally would do option > processing etc. and then run a script in the bin directory. > > bin = contains any top level scripts used by the application. > > doc = Documentation organized on a per package basis. > > generic = This contains .c and .h source files that are used by the > critcl system organized on a per package basis. > > lib/noarch = This contains platform independent tcl code organized on a > per package basis. > > = "$tcl_platform(os)_$tcl_platform(osVersion)" > > / = This contains all platform specific files. > > > > One of the questions I have is, how do links work inside a starkit? > This is an important question because it will be common for > > several platforms to share the same lib code. As an example: > > > > lib > > --> SunOS_5.7 > > --> myapp > > --> SunOS_5.8 > > --> myapp {link to lib/SunOS_5.7 } > > > > Regards, > > Tom Krehbiel > > _______________________________________________ > > starkit mailing list > > starkit@equi4.com > > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > > > > >-- >Steve Blinkhorn >_______________________________________________ >starkit mailing list >starkit@equi4.com >http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit Vince Darley CEO, Eurobios UK Ltd Tel: +44 (0)207 420 4319 Mobile: +44 (0) 794 154 8527 www.eurobios.com & www.biosgroup.com From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Tue Jul 30 10:50:17 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6UFoGa01376 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 10:50:16 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA23774 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:50:22 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA14658 for ; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:48:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC832W; Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:50:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3D46B5B6.89373B95@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 08:50:14 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout References: <3D456BB8.EEAC9B87@motorola.com> <5.1.1.5.0.20020730102208.03b3dc70@mail.wolfbusiness.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Vince, > I'd like to add that links *don't* work inside a starkit now, but they Hmm? When I ran the test on unix they seemed to work. I created a main.tcl that sourced a file linkfile.tcl that was really a link (created with ln -s). The linkfile.tcl link pointed to a file file.tcl that printed "hello world". This code worked after I wrapped it into a starkit. Am I missing something important or do links in starkits work on unix but not on windows (which is what I think is the case). > could easily be made to work, if we so desire. This would, of course, > depend on that underlying vfs-implementation supporting links. Adding > link-support to tclvfs (i.e. vfs.c) would take only about 10 lines of > code. Then it would be exposed to Tcl and if mk4vfs could support links > then it can be done. > > So: can the mk4 'filesystem' (be modified to) support links? If it can, > then starkits could _easily_ be made to support links. Your comments confirm what I suspected. I think that link support will be an absolutely essential feature to allow starkits to be built so they can support multiple platforms. If links aren't available then the uses of directory names that are tied to a platform type becomes pretty much useless because os versions are normally upwards compatible and therefore code can normally be used across a range of os versions so they can all be linked to the same code. However this is not always the case, 32 vs. 64 bit support is a good example. If the code is was written as a 32 bit application and then upgraded to 64 bit then 2 version would exist that would need to be selected based on the os version. Tom Krehbiel From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Wed Jul 31 06:30:05 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6VBU4a25582 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 06:30:04 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA05500 for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:30:02 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200207311130.MAA05500@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:30:02 +0100 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <3D46B5B6.89373B95@motorola.com> from "Tom Krehbiel" at Jul 30, 2 08:50:14 am Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Vince, > > > I'd like to add that links *don't* work inside a starkit now, but they > > Hmm? When I ran the test on unix they seemed to work. I created a main.tcl that sourced a file linkfile.tcl that was really a link > (created with ln -s). The linkfile.tcl link pointed to a file file.tcl that printed "hello world". This code worked after I wrapped > it into a starkit. Am I missing something important or do links in starkits work on unix but not on windows (which is what I think > is the case). Distinguish between links in the process of building a starkit and what's in the starkit. Add the -verbose flag when you wrap and you'll see that sdx is taking a copy of the file the link refers to (which is why the technique of building a .vfs out of symlinks works). The same happens with hard links. Each directory entry in the .vfs results in a copy of a file being added to the kit. 10 links in the .vfs turns into 10 copies of the file. Test with a very short text file, then just cat the kit onto your screen and you'll see the content twice. > > > could easily be made to work, if we so desire. This would, of course, > > depend on that underlying vfs-implementation supporting links. Adding > > link-support to tclvfs (i.e. vfs.c) would take only about 10 lines of > > code. Then it would be exposed to Tcl and if mk4vfs could support links > > then it can be done. > > > > So: can the mk4 'filesystem' (be modified to) support links? If it can, > > then starkits could _easily_ be made to support links. > > Your comments confirm what I suspected. I think that link support will be an absolutely essential feature to allow starkits to be > built so they can support multiple platforms. If links aren't available then the uses of directory names that are tied to a platform > type becomes pretty much useless because os versions are normally upwards compatible and therefore code can normally be used across > a range of os versions so they can all be linked to the same code. However this is not always the case, 32 vs. 64 bit support is a > good example. If the code is was written as a 32 bit application and then upgraded to 64 bit then 2 version would exist that would > need to be selected based on the os version. > > Tom Krehbiel > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > -- Steve Blinkhorn From lvirden@cas.org Wed Jul 31 08:21:33 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g6VDLXa32139 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 08:21:33 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g6VDLQO06341 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g6VDLQO09379; Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:21:26 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020731092126.AAB9352@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout In-Reply-To: <200207311130.MAA05500@sole.prd.co.uk> of Wed, 31 Jul 2002 12:30:02 +0100 (GMT/BST) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've started a wiki page to discuss a proposed install directory structure (where a tcl application or extension would reside). This directory structure might be very close to a starkit's directory structure. Feel free to chime in with opinions. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Aug 8 11:45:14 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78GjEa19016 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:45:14 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA14993 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:45:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA03133 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:45:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC80CT; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 09:45:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3D52A018.2FE771C7@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 09:45:12 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <20020731092126.AAB9352@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Test Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Test message. Tom Krehbiel From lvirden@cas.org Thu Aug 8 11:54:35 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78GsYa19778 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 11:54:34 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g78GsRO08215 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g78GsRK28603; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:54:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020808125427.AAB28590@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Test In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 08 Aug 2002 09:45:12 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Your test was successful - Apparently no one has much to say right now. And things were going so well there for a few days... -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Aug 8 12:19:40 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78HJea21787 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:19:40 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id KAA18282 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:19:39 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA21696 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:17:54 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC80H4; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:19:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3D52A82A.6A979AC3@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:19:38 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry W. Virden" CC: starkit@equi4.com, andreask@ActiveState.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Test References: <20020808125427.AAB28590@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The list got so quite that I began wandering if I was still signed up. Does anyone know when JCW is returning from vacation? I quit working on some of the problems I was having because I needed to get some other work done but I will start up again when he returns. -tjk From andreask@ActiveState.com Thu Aug 8 12:22:47 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78HMla22051 for ; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:22:47 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g78HMZu03859; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:22:35 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g78HMZ222751; Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:22:35 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Tom Krehbiel" , "Larry W. Virden" Cc: Subject: RE: [Starkit] Test Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:22:35 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <3D52A82A.6A979AC3@motorola.com> X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JCW should be back around Aug 19. -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com Join Tcl'2002 in Vancouver http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ ** Registration is open ** > -----Original Message----- > From: rna020@pobox4.mot.com [mailto:rna020@pobox4.mot.com]On Behalf Of > Tom Krehbiel > Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 10:20 AM > To: Larry W. Virden > Cc: starkit@equi4.com; andreask@ActiveState.com > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Test > > > The list got so quite that I began wandering if I was still > signed up. Does anyone know when JCW is returning from vacation? I quit > working on some of the problems I was having because I needed to > get some other work done but I will start up again when he returns. > > -tjk > From nicolasb@maich.gr Fri Aug 9 06:08:20 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g79B8Ja12916 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 06:08:19 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Fri Aug 09 14:35:42 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D53A383.6000202@maich.gr> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 14:12:03 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Have tried to update a tclkit based app from an OLD version of tclkit (8.4a1 based), I believe from ~September 2000 to the latest version, but getting alot of crashes. I've narrowed it down to the fact that the OLD tclkit did not mind calls to a non-existing db.table, and did not crash on exit. The new tclkits still do not mind the above calls, but crash on exit. ##Test crash on exit % mk::file open exe C:/scripdoc-utils/tclkit.exe % set c [mk::view size test.table] 0 % exit Bad coding aside, this approach made it very convenient to initialize application variables to point to the begining of tables, without worrying whether the file was newley created (existing) or not. So my question is basically whether this is considered normal/designed behavior in the newer releases. regards, nicolas boretos From lvirden@cas.org Fri Aug 9 06:37:23 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79BbNa14003 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 06:37:23 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g79BbGO20657 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g79BbHx25963; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:37:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020809073717.AAB25954@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 09 Aug 2002 14:12:03 +0300 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've seen discussion around the Tcl community about crashes on exit. I think that an upgrade of the tclkit to the latest tcl/tk may fix that problem. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Aug 9 06:45:41 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79Bjfa14400 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 06:45:41 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id MAA15056 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:45:38 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200208091145.MAA15056@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:45:38 +0100 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <20020809073717.AAB25954@cas.org> from "Larry W. Virden" at Aug 9, 2 07:37:17 am Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > I've seen discussion around the Tcl community about crashes on exit. > I think that an upgrade of the tclkit to the latest tcl/tk may fix that > problem. > -- The tclkit crash-on-exit problem that haunted us for a long time only occurred on Windows NT, and we *believe* that it has been fixed with the arrival of the latest VFS code, but we're not altogether sure, because we thought it had been eliminated a couple of times before. I'm not aware of any discussion of crash-on-exit being related to this sort of thing - we did see it in the context of files in the VFS and had to code very carefully (and empirically) for a while. -- Steve Blinkhorn From nicolasb@maich.gr Fri Aug 9 07:07:22 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g79C7Ka15448 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:07:21 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Fri Aug 09 15:34:44 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D53B159.8070801@maich.gr> Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:11:05 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry W. Virden" CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? References: <20020809073717.AAB25954@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > I've seen discussion around the Tcl community about crashes on exit. > I think that an upgrade of the tclkit to the latest tcl/tk may fix that > problem. Hi, I'm not sure I understand. It is the recent version that causes the crash I am experiencing. And BTW, this is on WinXP and Win2K regards, nicolas From lvirden@cas.org Fri Aug 9 07:44:58 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79Ciwa17230 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 07:44:58 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g79CipO06114 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:44:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g79CiqY26645; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 08:44:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020809084451.AAB26636@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 09 Aug 2002 15:11:05 +0300 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Re: most recent version causing problem What I am saying is that it may be that the latest tclkit has a bug in it, and that a new release of tclkit is required. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Aug 9 09:57:23 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79EvMa24834 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:57:22 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id PAA15550 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 15:57:21 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200208091457.PAA15550@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 15:57:20 +0100 (GMT/BST) Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It may just be that you've put your finger on one of the circumstances in which crash-on-exit happens that wasn't spotted before. It needs Jean-Claude's attention, though. The more you can tie down which versions of tclkit do what the better: so far as I have been able to tell, crash-on-exit never did any harm, but it wasn't pretty and you don't want users in general to have to tolerate that sort of thing. -- Steve Blinkhorn From gay@sfu.ca Fri Aug 9 11:53:51 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79Grpa01063 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 11:53:51 -0500 Received: from fraser.sfu.ca (gay@fraser.sfu.ca [142.58.101.25]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.3/8.12.3/SFU-6.0H) with ESMTP id g79GrnmC007797 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:53:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ian D. Gay" Received: (from gay@localhost) by fraser.sfu.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2/SFU-5.0C) id JAA08334 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <200208091653.JAA08334@fraser.sfu.ca> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? (fwd) To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL4] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Forwarded message: > > > > I've seen discussion around the Tcl community about crashes on exit. > > I think that an upgrade of the tclkit to the latest tcl/tk may fix that > > problem. > > -- > > The tclkit crash-on-exit problem that haunted us for a long time only > occurred on Windows NT, and we *believe* that it has been fixed with > the arrival of the latest VFS code, but we're not altogether sure, > because we thought it had been eliminated a couple of times before. > I'm not aware of any discussion of crash-on-exit being related to this > sort of thing - we did see it in the context of files in the VFS and > had to code very carefully (and empirically) for a while. > > -- > Steve Blinkhorn A while back I reported crash-on-exit problems when a kit contained a binary extension. At that time I had only tried Win98. I can now say that the same crash occurs on ME, but _not_ on NT. Haven't tried 2k or XP yet. All tests done with the latest tclkit - 8.4b2, (8.4b1 also crashed on win98). From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Aug 9 12:07:36 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g79H7Za01996 for ; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 12:07:35 -0500 Received: (from steve@localhost) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) id SAA15929 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 9 Aug 2002 18:07:33 +0100 (GMT/BST) From: Steve Blinkhorn Message-Id: <200208091707.SAA15929@sole.prd.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tclkit Normal Behavior? (fwd) To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 18:07:28 +0100 (GMT/BST) In-Reply-To: <200208091653.JAA08334@fraser.sfu.ca> from "Ian D. Gay" at Aug 9, 2 09:53:48 am Company: Psychometric Research & Development Ltd Address: Brewmaster House, The Maltings, St Albans AL1 3HT, UK Phone: +44 1727 841455 Fax: +44 1727 847846 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > A while back I reported crash-on-exit problems when a kit contained a > binary extension. At that time I had only tried Win98. I can now say > that the same crash occurs on ME, but _not_ on NT. Haven't tried 2k or > XP yet. All tests done with the latest tclkit - 8.4b2, (8.4b1 also > crashed on win98). > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > I can't remember if I'm repeating myself here, but the presence or absence of binary extensions is not something I have seen make a difference. I assume that Windows ME is basically 98 with a few extra bugs added (we have endless trouble with ME and InstallShield-generated self-extracting .exe files which we use to put starkits on desktops), so that would make some sense. We *never* saw crash-on-exit on 98 or 95, but haven't tried with the latest tclkit on any kind of scale. At one stage I assumed that NT was more fastidious about releasing memory or some such, then wondered about memory alignment. Perhaps changing the length of a file by one or two bytes might make a difference. I think the truth of the matter may be that it is not a single cause, just a single error message. The more people can demonstrate this behaviour the better, but I have never made it happen with a simple starkit, only one with many files. -- Steve Blinkhorn From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Mon Aug 12 12:37:19 2002 Received: from dallas.jhuapl.edu (dallas.jhuapl.edu [128.244.197.22]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7CHbJa24907 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:37:19 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) id <0H0Q00201RLWBO@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) with ESMTP id <0H0Q0013CRLRW0@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from argon.jhuapl.edu (argon.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.48]) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7CHb3Y02532 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by argon.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7CHb3q04841 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu X-Sender: jhz@argon.jhuapl.edu To: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: argon.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Subject: [Starkit] Adding Itk 3.2 to Kitten Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have a moderate size Iwidgets application I would like to package for Linux and SunOS. I got kitten from http://www.equi4.com/pub/sk/kitten.kit and it was missing the Itk 3.2 shared library for Sunos. I had the library from Active state so I decided to add it by unwrapping kitten.kit, inserting libitk3.2.so and a file pkgIndex.tcl in the directory structure, and rewrapping it. I could not make the Itk package visible by doing this. In detail: - With sdx I unwrapped kitten to kitten.vfs. The arch subdirectory under kitten.vfs/lib looked like: |-itcl3.2--- |-Linux-------|-itk3.2---- | |-tix8.2---- | |-tkhtml0.0- |-arch-| |-SunOS-sparc-|-itcl3.2--- | |-tkhtml0.0- | | |-itcl3.2--- |-Windows-----|-itk3.2---- |-tkhtml0.0- - Then I made the missing directory kitten.vfs/lib/arch/SunOS-sparc/itk3.2. - Then I placed a copy of the Active state libitk3.2.so in kitten.vfs/lib/arch/SunOS-sparc/tk3.2 - Then I created pkgIndex.tcl in kitten.vfs/lib/arch/SunOS-sparc/tk3.2. It contains: # Tcl package index file, version 1.0 set env(ITK_LIBRARY) [file join $dir ../../../itk3.2] package ifneeded Itk 3.2 [list load [file join $dir libitk3.2.so] Itk] - The The arch subdirectory under kitten.vfs/lib now looks like: |-itcl3.2---|-libitcl3.2.so | |-pkgIndex.tcl | |-itk3.2----|-libitk3.2.so |-Linux-------| |-pkgIndex.tcl | | | |-tix8.2----|-libtix8.2.so | | | |-tkhtml0.0-|-pkgIndex.tcl | |-tkhtml.so | | |-itcl3.2---|-libicl3.2.so | | |-pkgIndex.tcl | | |-arch-|-SunOS-sparc-|-itk3.2----|-libitk3.2.so | | |-pkgIndex.tcl | | | |-tkhtml0.0-|-pkgIndex.tcl | |-tkhtml.so | | |-itcl3.2---|-itcl32.dll | | |-pkgIndex.tcl | | |-Windows-----|-itk3.2----|-itk32.dll | |-pkgIndex.tcl | |-tkhtml0.0-|-pkgIndex.tcl |-tkhtml.dll - Then I wrapped kitten.kit again. My application in 'hello.tcl' is: source kitten.kit package require Tk package require Iwidgets pack [button .b -text "Hello World!" -command bell] When I run it I get: jhz[aplexus.jhuapl.edu:(~/downloads/tclkit_dir)]209: tclkit hello.tcl can't find package Itk 3.2 while executing "package require Itk 3.2" (file "/home/u8/jhz/downloads/tclkit_dir/kitten.kit/lib/iwidgets3.0.1/iwidgets.tcl" line 19) invoked from within "source /home/u8/jhz/downloads/tclkit_dir/kitten.kit/lib/iwidgets3.0.1/iwidgets.tcl" ("package ifneeded" script) invoked from within "package require Iwidgets" (file "hello.tcl" line 3) I don't fully understand the package loading/sourcing operation of Tcl, but would appreciate any immediate observations on what I am doing wrong while I am delving into that subject... Is the sdx unwrap/wrap symetric, for instance? ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From lvirden@cas.org Tue Aug 13 05:27:50 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7DARoa11980 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 05:27:50 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g7DARiO27312 for ; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g7DARiT21681; Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020813062743.AAB21430@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Adding Itk 3.2 to Kitten In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 12 Aug 2002 13:37:03 -0400 (EDT) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu > so I decided to add it by unwrapping kitten.kit, > inserting libitk3.2.so and a file pkgIndex.tcl in the directory structure, > and rewrapping it. I could not make the Itk package visible by doing this. 1. Kitten is an experiment. Starkits in general are evolving and you should expect to see something similar, but with a better organization in the upcoming days. 2. Is the sdx unwrap/wrap symetric, for instance? As far as I am aware, the actions are symetric. As for why it isn't working, I am uncertain. I know that the questions I have asked in the past regarding kitten have generally been answered with "be patient - some additional work on this concept is coming after Jean-Claude returns refreshed from summer holidays." -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Fri Aug 16 08:32:38 2002 Received: from dallas.jhuapl.edu (dallas.jhuapl.edu [128.244.197.22]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GDWca23098 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 08:32:38 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) id <0H0X00401UY4ME@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) with ESMTP id <0H0X0041UUXYHU@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from argon.jhuapl.edu (argon.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.48]) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7GDWMY10593 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by argon.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7GDWMX08279 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu X-Sender: jhz@argon.jhuapl.edu To: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: argon.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Subject: [Starkit] Problems using Iwidgets, Itk with tclkit (guide needed) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have an application that uses the Iwidgets package. I now run it successfully under the ActiveCD Tcl/Tk installation. I am much taken with the tclkit/scripted document concept and now I want to package my application to run with tclkit (as a scripted document, or starkit). I think Iwidgets is a script-only package, and it needs Itk which needs Itcl. Itcl is in tclkit, but Itk is not. What approach to use to add Itk and Iwidgets? Should I try to package Itk and Iwidgets with my application (which would make it platform dependent since Itk seems to be a binary library) or try to add them both to tclkit (I have successfully built tclkit on linux and SunOS) or some combination of these? I am in the middle of trying to add Itk to tclkit and Iwidgets to my scripted document by modifying genkit, but it might take me some time to understand the genkit script and get it right. Previouusly I tried to add Itk and Iwidgets to my scripted document by placing the ActiveCD versions in the lib directory, but ran into version compatibility problems. I need to revisit this again with a better understanding of how the package verisons are related. It might be very useful to write a guide to adding extensions to tclkit via genkit, and I would be willing to help if there is interest in this. ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From lvirden@cas.org Fri Aug 16 11:39:18 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GGdIa00382 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 11:39:18 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g7GGdAO29596 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:39:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g7GGdBW29722; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:39:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:39:11 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020816123911.AAB29711@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Problems using Iwidgets, Itk with tclkit (guide needed) In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 16 Aug 2002 09:32:22 -0400 (EDT) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It is my understanding that the preference is to add Itk and Iwidgets to one's starkit. However, having reproducible steps for how to do that would be, I agree, a wonderful thing. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Fri Aug 16 12:03:44 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GH3ha01798 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:03:43 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA14416 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:03:37 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200208161703.SAA14416@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Problems using Iwidgets, Itk with tclkit (guide needed) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 16 Aug 2002 12:39:11 EDT." <20020816123911.AAB29711@cas.org> Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:03:36 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>"Larry W. Virden" said: > It is my understanding that the preference is to add Itk and Iwidgets to > one's starkit. > > However, having reproducible steps for how to do that would be, I agree, a > wonderful thing. I haven't got round to using Iwidgets yet, but certainly at present I would advise against building special versions of tclkit, and put extensions in the starkit instead. Starpacks, with everything in one file, may be a good way to go if you don't need to write inside your VFS. I know how frustrating it can seem at first, and it's extra-specially frustrating when you're doing it on a system that already has a standard installation, but the basics just require a trip back to first principles. 1. If what you want to load or require isn't in somewhere referred to by auto_list, you need to lappend the location of the package or extension or whatever. 2. tclkit has beliefs about where relative paths are relative to. It's worth experimenting with a one-liner to see what happens when tclkit and the starkit are resident in the same directory or in different direcotries, and playing with the [file dirname [info script]] and [file dirname [info nameofexecutable]] idioms to get your sea legs, so to speak. I'm quite serious about this: starkits can be quite disorienting when all your programming life you've been dealing with real file systems rather than virtual files systems. There's no substitute for experience, and learning to walk before you can run is highly recommended. It takes very little time and effort, and pays off in grand style. 3. Find a suitable binary extension, and try loading it. If it refuses, from the main.tcl at the top level in your starkit try load [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib myextension.dll], with the dll sitting in the lib subdirectory. 4. Reconcile yourself to this sort of idiom 5. By this time, you should be convinced that it is possible to load a binary extension and make it work. Now get to grips with auto_list and review your understanding of pkgIndex.tcl. Write short scripts to find out what's in your auto_load list, compare the output with what you think you've put in the starkit, and try to reconcile tclkit's idea of what is there with your own. I really do think there's no substitute for this sort of basic tinkering to get your bearings. Remember that the only libraries and so forth you can depend on are those that are part of tclkit, or that you have added explicitly to a starkit. I found it confusing for a long time, too, but I don't think a single concrete rule set is helpful in the long term. From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Fri Aug 16 14:42:48 2002 Received: from houston.jhuapl.edu (houston.jhuapl.edu [128.244.26.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7GJgma10292 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 14:42:48 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) id <0H0Y00H01C31EF@houston.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) with ESMTP id <0H0Y00DC3C2VU5@houston.jhuapl.edu>; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from argon.jhuapl.edu (argon.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.48]) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7GJgVY12957; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by argon.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g7GJgU908329; Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:42:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 15:42:30 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Subject: Re: [Starkit] Problems using Iwidgets, Itk with tclkit (guide needed) In-reply-to: <200208161703.SAA14416@sole.prd.co.uk> X-Sender: jhz@argon.jhuapl.edu To: Steve Blinkhorn Cc: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: argon.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Following your suggestions I've gotten so far as to be able to 'load' one binary, Tclx, when I build it into my starkit (not tclkit). It does not work completely (some commands work, some do not...) due to a 'file too big' error. Details: My app. is hello and the vfs I wrap looks like: |-hello.tcl | |-mypak-----|-pack.tcl | |-pkgIndex.tcl | | |-autoload.tcl | |-buildidx.tcl |-hello.vfs-|-lib------| |-libtclx8.3.so | |-tclX8.3---|-pkgIndex.tcl | |-tcl.tlib | |-tcl.tndx | |-tclXAppInit.c | |-tclx.tcl |-main.tcl 'hello.tcl' looks like: =========== hello.tcl ============ # Try loading binary extension Tclx set tclxpath [file join [file dirname [info script]] tclX8.3 libtclx8.3.so] puts $tclxpath load $tclxpath # Try some Tclx commands: puts "Min 1 2 3: [min 1 2 3]" puts "cos 1.0: [cos 1.0]" =========== End hello.tcl ============ Some basic Tclx commands work fine, but ones that use the tcl.tlib fail. Here's the output of running hello (wrapped as a starkit): =========== Program STDOUT =============== ./hello/lib/tclX8.3/libtclx8.3.so 1 error accessing: hello.vfs/lib/tclX8.3/tcl.tlib: file too big while executing "auto_load_pkg TclX-fmath" ("uplevel" body line 1) invoked from within "uplevel #0 $auto_index($name)" (procedure "auto_load" line 26) invoked from within "auto_load $name [uplevel 1 {::namespace current}]" (autoloading "cos") invoked from within "cos 1.0" invoked from within "puts "cos 1.0: [cos 1.0]" " (file "./hello/lib/hello.tcl" line 6) invoked from within "source [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib hello.tcl] " (file "./hello/main.tcl" line 4) invoked from within "source ./hello/main.tcl" ("uplevel" body line 1) invoked from within "uplevel [list source [file join $self main.tcl]]" =========== End of STDOUT ============== I can't figure out why the 'file too big' error. The 'cos' command is implemented in that file. On Fri, 16 Aug 2002, Steve Blinkhorn wrote: > >>>"Larry W. Virden" said: > > It is my understanding that the preference is to add Itk and Iwidgets to > > one's starkit. > > > > However, having reproducible steps for how to do that would be, I agree, a > > wonderful thing. > > I haven't got round to using Iwidgets yet, but certainly at present I > would advise against building special versions of tclkit, and put > extensions in the starkit instead. Starpacks, with everything in one > file, may be a good way to go if you don't need to write inside your > VFS. > > I know how frustrating it can seem at first, and it's extra-specially > frustrating when you're doing it on a system that already has a > standard installation, but the basics just require a trip back to > first principles. > > 1. If what you want to load or require isn't in somewhere referred to > by auto_list, you need to lappend the location of the package or > extension or whatever. > > 2. tclkit has beliefs about where relative paths are relative to. > It's worth experimenting with a one-liner to see what happens when > tclkit and the starkit are resident in the same directory or in > different direcotries, and playing with the [file dirname [info script]] > and [file dirname [info nameofexecutable]] idioms to get your sea > legs, so to speak. I'm quite serious about this: starkits can be > quite disorienting when all your programming life you've been dealing > with real file systems rather than virtual files systems. > There's no substitute for experience, and learning to walk before you > can run is highly recommended. It takes very little time and effort, > and pays off in grand style. > > 3. Find a suitable binary extension, and try loading it. If it > refuses, from the main.tcl at the top level in your starkit try > load [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib myextension.dll], > with the dll sitting in the lib subdirectory. > > 4. Reconcile yourself to this sort of idiom > > 5. By this time, you should be convinced that it is possible to load a > binary extension and make it work. Now get to grips with auto_list > and review your understanding of pkgIndex.tcl. Write short scripts > to find out what's in your auto_load list, compare the output with what > you think you've put in the starkit, and try to reconcile tclkit's > idea of what is there with your own. > > I really do think there's no substitute for this sort of basic > tinkering to get your bearings. Remember that the only libraries and > so forth you can depend on are those that are part of tclkit, or that > you have added explicitly to a starkit. I found it confusing for a > long time, too, but I don't think a single concrete rule set is > helpful in the long term. > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From clif@clif.cflynt.com Tue Aug 20 10:45:13 2002 Received: from ic.net (relay084.ic.net [152.160.8.94]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7KFjDa32529 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:45:13 -0500 Received: (qmail 52346 invoked by uid 0); 20 Aug 2002 15:54:26 -0000 Received: from noucorp.com.12.160.152.in-addr.arpa (HELO bastion.noucorp.com) (152.160.12.213) by dialin.netrek.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 15:54:26 -0000 Received: from clif.cflynt.com (clif.cflynt.com [192.168.9.2]) by bastion.noucorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA24977 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:11 -0400 Received: (from clif@localhost) by clif.cflynt.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7KFjC618695 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:12 -0400 From: Clif Flynt Message-Id: <200208201545.g7KFjC618695@clif.cflynt.com> To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Img and Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Here's a report of what I've done, and a request for other suggestions. The goal is to wrap a starpack that uses the Img extension. The ultimate goal is to create a Windows executable that uses the Img extension on my linux box. The trivial test: ###################### package require Tk package require Img set photo(imgName) [tk_getOpenFile -defaultextension .jpg \ -filetypes {{all *} {jpeg .jpg} {gif .gif}} \ -initialdir "." \ -title "Select one image" ] grid [canvas .c] set im [image create photo -file $photo(imgName)] .c create image 0 0 -image $im ###################### I downloaded the current versions of tclkit, etc from equi4: -rw-r--r-- 1 clif users 1498918 Aug 19 22:30 tclkit-linux-x86.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 clif users 1039116 Aug 19 22:33 tclkit-win32.exe.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 clif users 45733 Aug 19 22:36 sdx.kit Wrapped the package sdx qwrap tst.tcl Unwrapped: sdx unwrap tst.kit copied the .so files from ActiveState release for Tcl/Tk 8.3 to the tst.vfs/lib directory: -r-xr-xr-x 1 clif users 169530 Aug 20 02:01 libimg1.2.so -rw-r--r-- 1 clif users 269 Aug 20 02:03 pkgIndex.tcl -rw-r--r-- 1 clif users 313 Aug 20 02:04 tst.tcl and created a starkit with sdx wrap tst -runtime tclkit-linux-x86 When I run ./tst, I get an immediate Segment Fault and core dump, apparently in the tk_getOpenFile call. I suspect when it tries to creat an image for the folder markers. I noticed that the ActiveState stuff I've got is for Tcl8.3, and the tclkit identifies itself as 8.4. So, I rebuilt libimg1.2.so using the Tcl8.4a4 release, and copied the new libimg1.2.so into my lib directory. At this point, the tk_getOpenFile will display, but the application segment faults on "set im [image create photo -file $photo(imgName)]". FWIW, running fully interpreted with the Active State distro, the test does run. My suspicion is that there are problems in the Img code. I tried running a test using my compiled-against-tcl8.4a4 library, and it core dumps if I use the wish8.3, but will load images if I use wish8.4 (and core dumps when I try to write an image.) I see some mentions of STUBS in the libImg source, but I haven't looked at the code hard yet. Clif From dgporter@erols.com Tue Aug 20 10:54:20 2002 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7KFsJa00740 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 10:54:20 -0500 X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZTflFg2aWqebUFwjYp4d/Iei93eGPm2oH/tQau/AXRwtEbjTPDykHYvm37cdMinR8= Received: from hamming.cam.nist.gov ([129.6.88.137] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17hBKh-00059n-00; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:54:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3D626623.1070005@erols.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:54:11 -0400 From: Donald G Porter User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020812 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Clif Flynt CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit References: <200208201545.g7KFjC618695@clif.cflynt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Clif Flynt wrote: > At this point, the tk_getOpenFile will display, but the application > segment faults on "set im [image create photo -file $photo(imgName)]". You are probably running into Bug 571827 of the tkImg project. http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=571827&group_id=52039&atid=465492 patch available at that link. -- | Don Porter Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division | | donald.porter@nist.gov Information Technology Laboratory | | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/ NIST | |______________________________________________________________________| ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Tue Aug 20 11:06:37 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7KG6aa01712 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:06:36 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA26553; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:06:24 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200208201606.RAA26553@sole.prd.co.uk> To: Clif Flynt cc: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:45:11 EDT." <200208201545.g7KFjC618695@clif.cflynt.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:06:23 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>Clif Flynt said: > Hi, > Here's a report of what I've done, and a request for other suggestions. > > The goal is to wrap a starpack that uses the Img extension. The ultimate > goal is to create a Windows executable that uses the Img extension > on my linux box. > Is it possible that the Img extension wants to write a file of some kind inside the starpack (which *won't* work)? I'm not familiar with Img's workings, but does the "image create" command involve writing, say, a temporary file? Try the starkit approach, i.e. a two-file solution, and make sure the starkit is wrapped with the right flags to make it writable. If that works, there's the problem. From clif@clif.cflynt.com Tue Aug 20 11:47:41 2002 Received: from ic.net (relay084.ic.net [152.160.8.94]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7KGlfa04880 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:47:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 72541 invoked by uid 0); 20 Aug 2002 16:56:46 -0000 Received: from noucorp.com.12.160.152.in-addr.arpa (HELO bastion.noucorp.com) (152.160.12.213) by dialin.netrek.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 16:56:46 -0000 Received: from clif.cflynt.com (clif.cflynt.com [192.168.9.2]) by bastion.noucorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25178 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:47:31 -0400 Received: (from clif@localhost) by clif.cflynt.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7KGlW021314 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:47:32 -0400 From: Clif Flynt Message-Id: <200208201647.g7KGlW021314@clif.cflynt.com> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:47:32 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Donald G Porter" at Aug 20, 2002 11:54:11 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Don Porter Wrote > > You are probably running into Bug 571827 of the tkImg project. > > http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=571827&group_id=52039&atid=465492 > > patch available at that link. Hi, Thanks, that was one problem. Applying the patch allows my libimg.so to work with wish8.3 and wish8.4. Unfortunagely, using the patched library didn't change the behavior of the starkit. I added a global version variable to my libImg: imgInit.c: Tcl_SetVar(interp, "img_version", "1.2a", TCL_GLOBAL_ONLY); to confirm that I'm loading the file I think I'm loading, and this indicates that I'm not being confused by loading the wrong shared lib. I tried downloading the files in http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ and building an sdx and tclkit from scratch (so I could add debugging info), but the sdx I created lacked the qwrap command, leading me to suspect that the files in that directory aren't the files that generated the sdx (and perhaps tclkit) executable I'm using. Clif From lvirden@cas.org Tue Aug 20 12:04:08 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7KH47a06290 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:04:07 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_MAIL_HUB-1.15) with ESMTP id g7KH40O25661 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g7KH40Q04746; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:04:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:04:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020820130400.AAB4737@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit In-Reply-To: <200208201647.g7KGlW021314@clif.cflynt.com> of Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:47:32 -0400 (EDT) To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There is some expectation that Jean-Claude will re-emerge from holiday shortly. Until that point, perhaps someone else who has some successful experience building a starkit might make some suggestions? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From clif@clif.cflynt.com Tue Aug 20 12:08:08 2002 Received: from ic.net (relay084.ic.net [152.160.8.94]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7KH87a06637 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:08:08 -0500 Received: (qmail 80003 invoked by uid 0); 20 Aug 2002 17:17:12 -0000 Received: from noucorp.com.12.160.152.in-addr.arpa (HELO bastion.noucorp.com) (152.160.12.213) by dialin.netrek.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2002 17:17:12 -0000 Received: from clif.cflynt.com (clif.cflynt.com [192.168.9.2]) by bastion.noucorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25263 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:07:57 -0400 Received: (from clif@localhost) by clif.cflynt.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7KH7w221454 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:07:58 -0400 From: Clif Flynt Message-Id: <200208201707.g7KH7w221454@clif.cflynt.com> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:07:58 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Steve Blinkhorn" at Aug 20, 2002 05:06:23 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Steven Blinkhorn: > > Is it possible that the Img extension wants to write a file of some > kind inside the starpack (which *won't* work)? I don't *think* Img is trying to write a temp file. I haven't checked all the code to be certain. I tried ./sdx wrap tst ./tclkit.linux ./tst and again, the application segment faulted when it tried to create the image. I think that's the two file solution you suggested. The kit made without the -runtime flag is about 2 Meg smaller. Clif Flynt From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Tue Aug 20 12:16:03 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (0@sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7KHG3a07299 for ; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 12:16:03 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA26913; Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:15:57 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200208201715.SAA26913@sole.prd.co.uk> To: Clif Flynt cc: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:07:58 EDT." <200208201707.g7KH7w221454@clif.cflynt.com> Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:15:57 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>>Clif Flynt said: > > Steven Blinkhorn: > > > > Is it possible that the Img extension wants to write a file of some > > kind inside the starpack (which *won't* work)? > > I don't *think* Img is trying to write a temp file. I haven't checked > all the code to be certain. > > I tried > > ./sdx wrap tst > ./tclkit.linux ./tst > > and again, the application segment faulted when it tried to create the > image. > > I think that's the two file solution you suggested. The kit made without > the -runtime flag is about 2 Meg smaller. > That's right, the two file solution is tclkit separate from the starkit, the single file (or starpack) has tclkit wrapped up inside it. But the default for starkits at present is that they are readonly - there's a command-line argument you need to use if you're going to write inside the starkit, you'll need to check on the equi4 site for what it is (I think the current help built into sdx is wrong about this). This happened relatively recently. Someone else shout if they can remember what it is... From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Wed Aug 21 10:31:54 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7LFVra19727 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:31:53 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA29400 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:31:59 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA13926 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:31:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC94RV; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 08:31:51 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit References: <200208201647.g7KGlW021314@clif.cflynt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Clif, I'm with Larry on waiting for Jean-Claude to return, there are just to many questions. I also had problems with the code at http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ however sdx is written in tcl so you can just use what is at the starkit repository location (providing you have a working tclkit) Tom Krehbiel > > > Don Porter Wrote > > > > You are probably running into Bug 571827 of the tkImg project. > > > > http://sf.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=571827&group_id=52039&atid=465492 > > > > patch available at that link. > > Hi, > Thanks, that was one problem. Applying the patch allows my libimg.so > to work with wish8.3 and wish8.4. > > Unfortunagely, using the patched library didn't change the behavior of > the starkit. I added a global version variable to my libImg: > > imgInit.c: Tcl_SetVar(interp, "img_version", "1.2a", TCL_GLOBAL_ONLY); > > to confirm that I'm loading the file I think I'm loading, and this > indicates that I'm not being confused by loading the wrong shared lib. > > I tried downloading the files in http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ > and building an sdx and tclkit from scratch (so I could add debugging > info), but the sdx I created lacked the qwrap command, leading me > to suspect that the files in that directory aren't the files that > generated the sdx (and perhaps tclkit) executable I'm using. > > Clif > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From steve@sole.prd.co.uk Wed Aug 21 11:22:48 2002 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (sole.prd.co.uk [193.117.57.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7LGMma23223 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:22:48 -0500 Received: from sole.prd.co.uk (99@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sole.prd.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA29766 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:22:41 +0100 (GMT/BST) Message-Id: <200208211622.RAA29766@sole.prd.co.uk> To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:22:41 +0100 From: Steve Blinkhorn Subject: [Starkit] encoding on Win95 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm getting reports of problems on some Windows 95 boxes, where instead of the intended characters only black squares appear. This is on a project where several dozen users on a range of machines from Win 95 to XP are not having a problem. My first guess is that these people lack a file that tclkit assumes is present, presumably some sort of character encoding file. I saw some traffic on encodings some weeks back, but can't track it down. Ring any bells? From steve@digital-smarties.com Wed Aug 21 17:53:39 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7LMrca13852 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:53:38 -0500 Received: (qmail 19695 invoked by uid 8); 21 Aug 2002 22:53:36 -0000 Received: from pc-00061 (192.168.1.61, claiming to be "[192.168.1.61]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdVR6FMY; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:53:29 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Tom Krehbiel" Cc: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:53:26 +0800 Message-Id: <20020821225326.13231@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> References: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom, Clif, Larry and others, >I'm with Larry on waiting for Jean-Claude to return, there are just to >many questions. I also had problems with the code at http:// >www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ however sdx is written in tcl so you >can just use what is at the starkit repository location (providing >you have a working tclkit) JCW is going to be out of action for a little longer, so I thought I'd jump in here. To get the latest sdx go to http://www.equi4.com/starkit follow the "How to assemble a Starkit" link (or just click on http://www.equi4.com/ starkit/39 :-)) The sdx you get from there contains qwrap. As Tom said, sdx is just a Starkit so you can unwrap it - but I'm not sure if you can unwrap a new Starkit with the old sdx. I'm not sure what is going on with pub/tk/tars - I guess there's some old links in there. This will all get cleanup up eventually, thanks for being patient. BTW, in case it isn't obvious, TclKit is also just a Starkit, so you can unwrap that too. TclKit really is just Tcl/Tcl + Itcl + MetaKit + zlib + a little bit of startup code Back to writing the Starkit paper for Vancouver (which hopefully will clear a lot of this stuff up) Steve -- Steve Landers Scripting Design Studio Digital Smarties steve@digital-smarties.com Perth, Western Australia www.digital-smarties.com From steve@digital-smarties.com Wed Aug 21 18:17:30 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7LNHTa14381 for ; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 18:17:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 19781 invoked by uid 8); 21 Aug 2002 23:17:27 -0000 Received: from pc-00061 (192.168.1.61, claiming to be "[192.168.1.61]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdJA7TnU; Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:17:23 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Steve Blinkhorn" , "Clif Flynt" Cc: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Img and Starkit Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:17:21 +0800 Message-Id: <20020821231722.12619@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <200208201715.SAA26913@sole.prd.co.uk> References: <200208201715.SAA26913@sole.prd.co.uk> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Clif, et al >But the default for starkits at present is that they are readonly - >there's a command-line argument you need to use if you're going to >write inside the starkit, you'll need to check on the equi4 site for >what it is (I think the current help built into sdx is wrong about >this). This happened relatively recently. Someone else shout if >they can remember what it is... With the change from Scripted Documents to Starkits, the default behaviour went from writable to readonly. This makes sense, since it mimics the behaviour of normal binaries (many users can run the starkit concurrently). Anyway, the latest sdx (the one available under http://equi4.com/starkit which also contains the qwrap command) implements this. If you do want to make the Starkit writable (for example, if your application needs to read/write into the Starkit VFS) use the -writable flag when you wrap it. Steve From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Aug 30 16:42:29 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7ULgTa30071 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:42:29 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA26143 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:42:40 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA15511 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:40:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC0GQV; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:42:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3D6FE6C3.F2171D30@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:42:27 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <3D41D65A.69727344@motorola.com> <20020727020851.29317@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm trying get the Tktable widget to work on HP-UX11. I built the package as a shared library and then tested it using tclkit retjobmon.vfs/main.tcl and the application works as expected. However, when I wrap it into a starpack using sdx I get the error shown below. I have check the /var/tmp directory and it is wide open so it's not a directory permissions problem and since the executable works in the above test case it doesn't seem to be a problem with the library. Anyone have an idea of what might be going wrong? 200704 couldn't load file "/var/tmp/tcla27219": permission denied while executing "load /home/rna020/work/retjobmon/src/retjobmon/lib/Tktable2.8/libTktable2.8.sl Tktable" ("package ifneeded" script) invoked from within "package require Tktable" (file "retjobmon/main.tcl" line 24) invoked from within "source retjobmon/main.tcl" <...snip...> Tom Krehbiel From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Aug 30 17:37:40 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UMbea00490 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:37:40 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA22287 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:37:39 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA11272 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:38:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id PSDC0GWR; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:37:38 -0700 Message-ID: <3D6FF3B2.AE8080D4@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:37:38 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP References: <3D41D65A.69727344@motorola.com> <20020727020851.29317@triqs.com> <3D6FE6C3.F2171D30@motorola.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I receieved input from Andreas that "HP requires that shared libraries are marked executable." Does anyone know if the starkit 'load' command marks the files placed in the /var/tmp directory as executable? Tom Krehbiel > I'm trying get the Tktable widget to work on HP-UX11. I built the package as a shared library and then tested it using > > tclkit retjobmon.vfs/main.tcl > > and the application works as expected. However, when I wrap it into a starpack using sdx I get the error shown below. I have check > the /var/tmp directory and it is wide open so it's not a directory permissions problem and since the executable works in the above > test case it doesn't seem to be a problem with the library. Anyone have an idea of what might be going wrong? > > 200704 > couldn't load file "/var/tmp/tcla27219": permission denied > while executing > "load /home/rna020/work/retjobmon/src/retjobmon/lib/Tktable2.8/libTktable2.8.sl Tktable" > ("package ifneeded" script) > invoked from within > "package require Tktable" > (file "retjobmon/main.tcl" line 24) > invoked from within > "source retjobmon/main.tcl" > <...snip...> From jcw@equi4.com Fri Aug 30 17:55:55 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UMtsa01592 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:55:55 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 00:55:51 +0200 Message-Id: <20020830225551.31459@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D6FF3B2.AE8080D4@motorola.com> References: <3D6FF3B2.AE8080D4@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >I receieved input from Andreas that "HP requires that shared libraries >are marked executable." Does anyone know if the starkit >'load' command marks the files placed in the /var/tmp directory as executable? Don't think so - see generic/tclIOUtil.c, line 2580 in the Tcl core. -jcw From andreask@ActiveState.com Fri Aug 30 17:59:59 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UMxxa01841; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:59:59 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UMxqa08321; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:59:52 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7UMxqi21764; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:59:52 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" , Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:59:52 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020830225551.31459@triqs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC what about the code which copies the library out of the VFS to the real disk ? Shouldn't the 'chmod' happen there ? -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com Join Tcl'2002 in Vancouver http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ ** Registration is open ** > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Jean-Claude Wippler > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 3:56 PM > To: starkit@equi4.com > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP > > > Tom Krehbiel wrote: > > >I receieved input from Andreas that "HP requires that shared libraries > >are marked executable." Does anyone know if the starkit > >'load' command marks the files placed in the /var/tmp directory as > executable? > > Don't think so - see generic/tclIOUtil.c, line 2580 in the Tcl core. > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > From jcw@equi4.com Fri Aug 30 18:08:17 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UN8Ga02379 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:08:16 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:08:13 +0200 Message-Id: <20020830230813.4737@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andreas Kupries wrote: >JC what about the code which copies the library out of the VFS to the >real disk ? Shouldn't the 'chmod' happen there ? It can't: starkits do not maintain file modes (in the current mk4vfs.tcl driver anyway) - nor file owners and other OS-specific details. Given that one can create starkits on Win32, I don't see how we could make this work properly in cross-platform-generating scenario's :( But given that "load" copies for a very specific purpose, and that some platforms have very specific needs for a +x bit - why not just activate the code in the comments? (I'm hoping Vince steps in here, he must have thought it through...) -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Fri Aug 30 18:26:22 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNQKa03333 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:26:21 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] more on starkit directory layout Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:23:32 +0200 Message-Id: <20020830232332.18136@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020727064254.AAB4400@cas.org> References: <20020727064254.AAB4400@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >It appears that, at least in the current kitten, one of the issues that >is being addressed is this: > >lib/extension_name/tcl_scripts >lib/arch/Platformname/extension_name/pkgIndex.tcl and shared libraries > >This is a good construct. It saves you from having full copies of >everything installed once for each machine. Yes, but - in hindsight - I consider "arch/" to be sub-optimal... Basically, we are storing a matrix: X packages versus Y platform binaries (not necessarily complete - the matrix is likely to be sparsely filled). With hierarchical storage, we can either do: packageX/platformY/blah or packageX/ + arch/platformY/packageX/blah Both solutions are similar. The latter has the disadvantage that one tends to forget grabbing the platformY/ files when copying around platformX for use in various projects. I'd rather copy too *much* than too little, i.e. copy all platforms accidentally even if only one is needed. That is one of the reasons why critcl has turned the structure around to storing all package data related to X in packageX/ and subdirs. And why I would vote for doing the same in kitten, sdarchive, etc. Kitten needs to be brought up to the latest conventions, but I'm afraid I won't be able to make that happen this month. >Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ There will be two presentations in Vancouver touching on these issues, i.e. "future tclkit directions" and "critcl". If it's within your options to go there, please do consider bringing the discussion over there... -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Fri Aug 30 18:26:24 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNQNa03338 for ; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:26:23 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] GUYS! HELP !!!!!! Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2002 01:26:11 +0200 Message-Id: <20020830232611.15031@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020725065510.AAB26178@cas.org> References: <20020725065510.AAB26178@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >Mel, here's what I see when I use tclkit: > >$ tclkit >% package require Itcl; >3.3 >% package names >http pwb rechan zipvfs tcltest opt mk4vfs vfslib msgcat scripdoc zlib >starkit Tcl Itcl Mk4tcl vfs Tk >% source kitten.kit >% package names >OAP::Utils uuencode smtpd counter Extral pwb soapinterop::base SOAP::smtp >xmlswitch opt tcltest wcb Tablelist vfslib msgcat dyncall Mentry Iwidgets >lzrw1 mathf uri::urn md5c SOAP::CGI math::calculus ftp expat gk Tclx >SOAP::beep autoproxy tdom report comm rpcvar textutil::expander dommap >Mk4tcl HTML_Parse SOAP::Service nntp htmlparse soapinterop::B SOAP::https >math sgml soapinterop::C textutil SOAP::xpath csv cmdline dom::tclgeneric >Widget xml::tclparser xpath cgi2dom ihash math::fuzzy ClassyTk Tktable >sgmlparser xml::c mime autoscroll Wikit::Gui SOAP::ftp ncgi ftp::geturl >Expect math::geometry xmldefs profiler cgi gbutton hexdump Tkhtml >puretclparser rchan Wikit::Utils html HTML irc fileutil Class xml::expat >SOAP::Domain stats javascript Tk vfs tclparser xml::tcl scratch http >control tcllib zipvfs cksum Wcb tablelist Supertext pop3d::udb pop3d >SOAP::http mentry mkWidgets zlib critcl calendar switched mvec stooop >exif sum dom::libxml2 pop3d::dbox Modify uri dom::generic recha! >n xerces xmldep pop3 tls SOAP mk4v >fs Metawidget struct dns crc32 narray Web XMLRPC md5 BWidget yencode >dom::tcl scripdoc Wikit dom xml log starkit Tcl smtp Itcl Mpexpr Trf >Wikit::Format Tix sha1 base64 ascenc mclistbox ftpd blowfish dom::c > > > >Notice there is no Itk present there - even though there is an Iwidgets. >Somehow Itk got lost from the Solaris build. Try the same steps and see >if you see Itk. If so, then type > >package versions Itk > >and see what version is reported. It may be something as silly as a 3.2 vs. 3.3 mismatch - note that recent tclkits all have itcl 3.3 included, whereas kitten still lags with builds of itcl/itk/iwidgets 3.2 ... Might be an idea to package require itcl 3.2 with the "-exact" flag after sourcing kitten, and *then* trying to package require itk etc. Then again, maybe this doesn't work (itcl 3.3 is statically linked). -jcw From andreask@ActiveState.com Fri Aug 30 18:32:12 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNWCa03613; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:32:12 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNW6a12007; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:32:06 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7UNW6i27463; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:32:06 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" , Cc: "Jeff Hobbs" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:32:06 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020830230813.4737@triqs.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Jean-Claude Wippler > Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:08 PM > To: starkit@equi4.com > Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP > > > Andreas Kupries wrote: > > >JC what about the code which copies the library out of the VFS to the > >real disk ? Shouldn't the 'chmod' happen there ? > > It can't: starkits do not maintain file modes (in the current mk4vfs.tcl > driver anyway) - nor file owners and other OS-specific details. Given > that one can create starkits on Win32, I don't see how we could make this > work properly in cross-platform-generating scenario's :( > > But given that "load" copies for a very specific purpose, and that some > platforms have very specific needs for a +x bit - why not just activate > the code in the comments? Just looked at generic/tclIOUtil.c, line 2580. Yes, this seems to be what is needed. Maybe conditional compiled in on HP's. > (I'm hoping Vince steps in here, he must have thought it through...) -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com Join Tcl'2002 in Vancouver http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ ** Registration is open ** From JeffH@ActiveState.com Fri Aug 30 18:41:46 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNfka04050; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 18:41:46 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7UNfea13093; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:41:40 -0700 Received: from rayo (rayo.activestate.com [192.168.3.186]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7UNfei28787; Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:41:40 -0700 From: "Jeff Hobbs" To: "'Andreas Kupries'" , "'Jean-Claude Wippler'" , Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:41:38 -0700 Message-ID: <01b401c2507e$c9d29e00$ba03a8c0@activestate.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > But given that "load" copies for a very specific purpose, and that some > > platforms have very specific needs for a +x bit - why not just activate > > the code in the comments? > > Just looked at generic/tclIOUtil.c, line 2580. Yes, this seems to be what is > needed. Maybe conditional compiled in on HP's. I don't think this should go into the core implementation of Tcl_FSLoadFile - it belongs in the vfs implemtetations, like that for starkit. The Tcl core should not be modifying files when 'load' is called on them. You might also hit further complications because you are making another vfs call, one that perhaps can validly throw an error where a normal load is OK. You don't want to get into this in the core - the handling of this belongs upstream. Jeff From vince.darley@eurobios.com Mon Sep 2 04:10:28 2002 Received: from smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g829ASa18242 for ; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 04:10:28 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17lnE2-000D0j-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 02 Sep 2002 10:10:26 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020902100739.02654c28@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 10:10:20 +0100 To: From: Vince Darley Subject: RE: [Starkit] Tktable problem on HP In-Reply-To: <20020830230813.4737@triqs.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >(I'm hoping Vince steps in here, he must have thought it through...) I would suggest activating the code in the comments. I thought about this problem, but found that the code seemed to work on multiple unixes without any chmod call, so simply left that code in comments rather than complicate the load from vfs functionality unnecessarily. However it does now appear to be necessary. I leave it up to the unix experts to decide whether this should be conditional on hp-ux or not. I agree with jcw that Jeff's comments are a red-herring here. 'load' doesn't modify any file that the user knows about, whether it does a chmod or not. Vince. From lvirden@cas.org Sat Sep 7 05:17:05 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g87AH5a17912 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 05:17:05 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g87AGwV3003977 for ; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g87AGwm20680; Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:16:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:16:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020907061658.AAB20675@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] Anyone have a Mac Icon for Starkits? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I didn't know if anyone on the list was a Mac user with creative tendencies and who might have created an distinguished icon for starkits - maybe a star and feather or something? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Sun Sep 8 17:23:01 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g88MMxa27271; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 17:22:59 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit , announce Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 00:22:34 +0200 Message-Id: <20020908222234.3233@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: To whom it may concern... There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/ (That's 9 hardware platforms and 10 OS's, in various combinations) These builds are all based on the totally new Tcl/Tk 8.4.0 - yeehah! If you use TclKit, please update to these builds. One month from now I intend to put all prior versions to rest (for now, they are in /pub/tk/ older-*). There is one major change, in that the $tcl_platform(vfs) item has been dropped. Instead, the "200209" VFS release number is now stored as $vfs::tclkit_version. Unfortunately, this change will break scripts which relied on that setting. -jcw From bryan@bitmover.com Sun Sep 8 20:05:37 2002 Received: from lakemtao08.cox.net (lakemtao08.cox.net [68.1.17.113]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8915ba29927; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:05:37 -0500 Received: from bigmac.bitmover.com ([68.0.123.253]) by lakemtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020909010526.DXMH1344.lakemtao08.cox.net@bigmac.bitmover.com>; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:05:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:05:28 -0500 Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Cc: Starkit To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" From: Bryan Oakley In-Reply-To: <20020908222234.3233@triqs.com> Message-Id: <3AF61F6E-C390-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.543) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sunday, September 8, 2002, at 05:22 PM, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > To whom it may concern... > > There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: > http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ > http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/ > (That's 9 hardware platforms and 10 OS's, in various combinations) ... Is the macosx port still without Tk support? I get an error when I try to "package require Tk". --bryan From steve@digital-smarties.com Sun Sep 8 20:13:06 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g891D5a30077 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 20:13:05 -0500 Received: (qmail 24327 invoked by uid 8); 9 Sep 2002 01:13:05 -0000 Received: from pc-00061 (192.168.1.61, claiming to be "[192.168.1.61]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdan167m; Sun, 08 Sep 2002 21:12:56 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Bryan Oakley" , "Jean-Claude Wippler" Cc: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:12:54 +0800 Message-Id: <20020909011254.16550@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <3AF61F6E-C390-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> References: <3AF61F6E-C390-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Brain, >On Sunday, September 8, 2002, at 05:22 PM, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > >> To whom it may concern... >> >> There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: >> http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ >> http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/ >> (That's 9 hardware platforms and 10 OS's, in various combinations) >... > >Is the macosx port still without Tk support? I get an error when I try >to "package require Tk". The MacOS X version of TclKit requires X11 - i.e. the AquaTk version of TclKit hasn't been released as yet (although it is definitely on the horizon). I suspect you haven't got XonX/Xdarwin running? If so, you'll get a message from "package require Tk" like: couldn't load library "/Users/steve/Desktop/tclkit-darwin-ppc/lib/tk8.4/ libtk8.4.so": no such file or directory If you haven't already set up X11, grab OroborOSX from oroborosx.sourceforge.net - it is a rootless window manager that nicely integrates with Aqua. Even when AquaTk matures, I'll still use this for displaying remote X11 applications. HTH Steve From bryan@bitmover.com Sun Sep 8 21:19:04 2002 Received: from lakemtao05.cox.net (lakemtao05.cox.net [68.1.17.116]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g892J4a31142 for ; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 21:19:04 -0500 Received: from bigmac.bitmover.com ([68.0.123.253]) by lakemtao05.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id <20020909021901.MXU8982.lakemtao05.cox.net@bigmac.bitmover.com>; Sun, 8 Sep 2002 22:19:01 -0400 Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 21:19:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Cc: Starkit To: "Steve Landers" From: Bryan Oakley In-Reply-To: <20020909011254.16550@mail.digital-smarties.com> Message-Id: <80E31ACE-C39A-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.543) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sunday, September 8, 2002, at 08:12 PM, Steve Landers wrote: > > The MacOS X version of TclKit requires X11 - i.e. the AquaTk version of > TclKit hasn't been released as yet (although it is definitely on the > horizon). > > I suspect you haven't got XonX/Xdarwin running? If so, you'll get a > message from "package require Tk" like: > > couldn't load library > "/Users/steve/Desktop/tclkit-darwin-ppc/lib/tk8.4/ > libtk8.4.so": no such file or directory Yep. I have X11, but had just recently rebooted and hadn't fired up X11 yet. Sweet! I'm a very happy camper. Thanks for letting me know, and thanks for all your work. --bryan From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 9 03:34:10 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g898Y9a05873 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 03:34:09 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:34:07 +0200 Message-Id: <20020909083407.9050@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <80E31ACE-C39A-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> References: <80E31ACE-C39A-11D6-959F-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryan Oakley wrote: [Steve Landers] >> I suspect you haven't got XonX/Xdarwin running? If so, you'll get a >> message from "package require Tk" like: >> >> couldn't load library >> "/Users/steve/Desktop/tclkit-darwin-ppc/lib/tk8.4/ >> libtk8.4.so": no such file or directory Which is a pretty confusing msg, btw. What happens is that load "" Tk fails because Tk refused to init without X11, the error gets caught, and tclkit retries a load [file join $dir libtk8.4.so] That then fails because in a statically linked tclkit there is no such file. Summary: "lib/tk8.4/pkgIndex.tcl" could do with some improvement :) >Yep. I have X11, but had just recently rebooted and hadn't fired up X11 >yet. Sweet! I'm a very happy camper. Thanks for trying it out. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 9 11:04:04 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89G44a29700; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 11:04:04 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA05430; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:04:20 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA10001; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:04:04 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id SRFRDCBF; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:04:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7CC673.A90DCD9E@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 09:04:03 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) References: <20020908222234.3233@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: EXCELLENT!! Thanks for the HP-UX build. I'll try out the new builds on HP and SPARC (sunos) today. I'm also starting to work on Windows but am confused by "1014k gzip 899k upx-exe" what is the deference between these two? Tom Krehbiel. Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > > To whom it may concern... > > There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: > http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ > http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/ > (That's 9 hardware platforms and 10 OS's, in various combinations) > > These builds are all based on the totally new Tcl/Tk 8.4.0 - yeehah! > > If you use TclKit, please update to these builds. One month from now I > intend to put all prior versions to rest (for now, they are in /pub/tk/ > older-*). > > There is one major change, in that the $tcl_platform(vfs) item has been > dropped. Instead, the "200209" VFS release number is now stored as > $vfs::tclkit_version. Unfortunately, this change will break scripts > which relied on that setting. > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 9 13:20:37 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89IKaa10034; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:20:36 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Tom Krehbiel" Cc: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:20:28 +0200 Message-Id: <20020909182028.17936@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7CC673.A90DCD9E@motorola.com> References: <3D7CC673.A90DCD9E@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >EXCELLENT!! > >Thanks for the HP-UX build. I'll try out the new builds on HP and >SPARC (sunos) today. I'm also starting to work on Windows but am >confused by "1014k gzip 899k upx-exe" what is the deference between >these two? Both work. The .gz needs unpacking but launches quicker (important for say CGI use), the .upx.exe runs out of the box (decompresses at run time). The latter can be useful to fit a substantial application with the tclkit runtime onto a floppy. >> There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: >> http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ Make that 26, a few more added with the help of Reinhard Max @ SuSE. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 9 14:57:59 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89Jvxa19351 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 14:57:59 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id MAA29571 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:58:00 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA14197 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:58:00 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id SRFRDC71; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:58:00 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7CFD47.971C456B@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:57:59 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) References: <20020908222234.3233@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: The HP-UX build appears to have a problem when loading a shared library. I just wrapped my application on HP and it generates the following error. /usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla13535 /usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied The application works ok when it is not wrapped on HP and it works on solaris eather wrapped or unwrapped. I have had this problem before and have not yet determined a fix. Is the HP-UX build known to load a shared library correctly? I don't seem to be having any success. Tom Krehbiel Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > > To whom it may concern... > > There are 23 new builds of TclKit on the website: > http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ > http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/ > (That's 9 hardware platforms and 10 OS's, in various combinations) > > These builds are all based on the totally new Tcl/Tk 8.4.0 - yeehah! > > If you use TclKit, please update to these builds. One month from now I > intend to put all prior versions to rest (for now, they are in /pub/tk/ > older-*). > > There is one major change, in that the $tcl_platform(vfs) item has been > dropped. Instead, the "200209" VFS release number is now stored as > $vfs::tclkit_version. Unfortunately, this change will break scripts > which relied on that setting. > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 9 15:13:46 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89KDja20951 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:13:46 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:13:23 +0200 Message-Id: <20020909201323.17835@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7CFD47.971C456B@motorola.com> References: <3D7CFD47.971C456B@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >The HP-UX build appears to have a problem when loading a shared >library. I just wrapped my application on HP and it generates >the following error. > >/usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla13535 >/usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied > >The application works ok when it is not wrapped on HP and it works >on solaris eather wrapped or unwrapped. > >I have had this problem before and have not yet determined a fix. >Is the HP-UX build known to load a shared library correctly? I >don't seem to be having any success. Ah, yes - ouch. This was being hashed out (I remember Andreas and Jeff and Vince getting involved) over the summer. Vaguely remember a discussion on allowing the fix which is currently in the Tcl core but in comments (most compilers ignore those ). Might even be a bug report on SF's tcl, I can't remember clearly. Solution: - get the the fix into Tcl (around line 2580 in tclIOUtil.c) - rebuild tclkit (note that MK builds on HP have been improved) I won't have time this month. If it's in by end September, I can do the build (using the HP/Compaq compile farm) in the October round of tclkit builds. Let me add that I will not be able to keep up all monthly build rounds indefinitely (well, not without some sort of payback or license structure anyway). The current crop was just a major push to get 8.4.0 out. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 9 15:35:54 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89KZsa23068 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:35:54 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id NAA13961 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:34:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id NAA26943 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:35:55 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id SRFRDDAQ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 13:35:54 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7D062A.6BFC407D@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:35:54 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) References: <3D7CFD47.971C456B@motorola.com> <20020909201323.17835@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JWC, Does the http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ site have all the 8.4.0 updates? If so I would like to do a build with the tclIOUtil.c file fixed to see if that fixes the problem. Tom K. Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > > Tom Krehbiel wrote: > > >The HP-UX build appears to have a problem when loading a shared > >library. I just wrapped my application on HP and it generates > >the following error. > > > >/usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla13535 > >/usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied > > > >The application works ok when it is not wrapped on HP and it works > >on solaris eather wrapped or unwrapped. > > > >I have had this problem before and have not yet determined a fix. > >Is the HP-UX build known to load a shared library correctly? I > >don't seem to be having any success. > > Ah, yes - ouch. This was being hashed out (I remember Andreas and Jeff > and Vince getting involved) over the summer. Vaguely remember a > discussion on allowing the fix which is currently in the Tcl core but in > comments (most compilers ignore those ). Might even be a bug > report on SF's tcl, I can't remember clearly. > > Solution: > - get the the fix into Tcl (around line 2580 in tclIOUtil.c) > - rebuild tclkit (note that MK builds on HP have been improved) > > I won't have time this month. If it's in by end September, I can do the > build (using the HP/Compaq compile farm) in the October round of tclkit > builds. > > Let me add that I will not be able to keep up all monthly build rounds > indefinitely (well, not without some sort of payback or license structure > anyway). The current crop was just a major push to get 8.4.0 out. > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit -- Tom.Krehbiel@motorola.com Software Developer Design to Manufacturing Solutions Semiconductor Products Sector From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 9 15:43:11 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g89Kh9a23712 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:43:10 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209) Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:42:42 +0200 Message-Id: <20020909204242.16136@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7D062A.6BFC407D@motorola.com> References: <3D7D062A.6BFC407D@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom, >Does the http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ site have all the >8.4.0 updates? If so I would like to do a build with the >tclIOUtil.c file fixed to see if that fixes the problem. Yep, the pub/tk/tars/ area was used for all the recent builds. I had to add a symlink on hpux to get the genkit build to complete: cd builds/`hostname`/mk ln -s libmk4tcl.sl libmk4tcl.so Then redo the failed builds: "sh genkit B mk kitsh kit". (Well, something like that - sorry: lost my notes on that one) -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 10 04:36:14 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8A9aEa07474 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 04:36:14 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8A9a94i027497 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8A9a9k22219; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:36:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:36:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020910053608.AAB22184@cas.org> Subject: HP-UX tclkit failure [Was Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209)] In-Reply-To: <20020909204242.16136@triqs.com> of Mon, 9 Sep 2002 22:42:42 +0200 To: Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >>Does the http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ site have all the >>8.4.0 updates? If so I would like to do a build with the >>tclIOUtil.c file fixed to see if that fixes the problem. > >Yep, the pub/tk/tars/ area was used for all the recent builds. Tom, when you wrote the above, did you mean "does the tars site have the tcl/vfs/starkit changes to allow HP-UX to operate correctly" or did you merely mean "is the version of the source used to generate the latest round of tclkit executables on the tar site" Because it was my understanding that the fixes for hp-ux in the vfs extension hadn't occurred yet. One issue this summer was this - on hp-ux, dynamic libraries have to have the file's executable bit set to be able to be loaded. There was various disagreements over whose responsibility it was to set those permissions; I saw 3 varients discussed - tcl core, vfs, and the application. In _my_ mind, the changes seem necessary to tcl if tcl is going to attempt to support dynamic loading of extensions on hp-ux. But then, never using hp-ux, I wasn't certain I understood the issues correctly. Now, I don't know whether the problem you are seeing is related to this issue or if that issue finally was resolved. Anyone know for certain? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From pieper@bwh.harvard.edu Mon Sep 9 20:49:48 2002 Received: from clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (clifford.bwh.harvard.edu [134.174.9.41]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8A1nla16368 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 20:49:47 -0500 Received: from bwh.harvard.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g8A1nnu08207 for ; Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:49:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:49:43 -0400 From: Steve Pieper User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] command line arg handling on win32 starpack Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi - I'm running into a difference in the way command line arguments to tclkit are handled between unix and windows. On unix (solaris and linux) the arguments are passed through to the tcl argv variable as expected, but on windows my starpack tries to interpret the args as filenames of a tcl script and gives me "error in startup script". The starpacks for each of the platforms are generated identically, all using the 200209 versions of the tclkits. I believe the unix behavior is correct but the win32 behavior (or my usage?) is incorrect. I've downloaded the genkit materials and will try building my own tclkit-win32.exe tomorrow to do some debugging, but I thought I'd ask if anyone has a suggestion...? Thanks in advance for any hints/help! -Steve p.s. I'm making a very simple starpack 'launcher' for our application that uses [info script] to determine the root directory of a directory full of stuff (scripts, cross platform shared libs, images, docs, etc). Eventually this may all get wrapped up inside the starpack, but for now almost the entire script is included below (only a license dialog box is removed for clarity). slicer2.vfs/main.tcl: ===================== set env(SLICER_HOME) [file dir [file dir [info script]]] if {$tcl_platform(platform) == "unix"} { eval exec $env(SLICER_HOME)/slicer $argv & } else { # must be win32 eval exec $env(SLICER_HOME)/slicer.bat $argv & } exit ===================== From Lee.Elms@oracle.com Tue Sep 10 07:10:52 2002 Received: from inet-mail3.oracle.com (inet-mail3.oracle.com [148.87.2.203]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ACAqa17516 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:10:52 -0500 Received: from inet-mail3.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail3.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g8ACAnP02615 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw5.us.oracle.com (rgmgw5.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.14]) by inet-mail3.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g8ACAmR02607 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oracle.com (DHCP-Data-Centre-222-90.uk.oracle.com [138.3.222.90]) by rgmgw5.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g8ACAlr23518 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 06:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D7DE144.2090600@oracle.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:10:44 +0100 From: Lee Elms Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.lang.tcl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Accessing ('open' etc.) files contained in a 'Starkit' ... Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've read through all the documentation I can locate, but can't locate an answer to what I hope is a simple question: how do I access (i.e. use the Tcl 'open' command etc.) a file contained in a 'Starkit' ? (I know how to build / update / add Tcl extensions to Startkit's, but can't find any docs. on to do the above). Thanks ... -- Lee From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 10 07:26:16 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ACQEa18561; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:26:15 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Steve Pieper" , Subject: Re: [Starkit] command line arg handling on win32 starpack Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:25:33 +0200 Message-Id: <20020910122533.24142@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> References: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Pieper wrote: (Post manually approved, as sender has not - yet - subscribed) >I'm running into a difference in the way command line arguments to >tclkit are handled between unix and windows. On unix (solaris and >linux) the arguments are passed through to the tcl argv variable as >expected, but on windows my starpack tries to interpret the args as >filenames of a tcl script and gives me "error in startup script". The >starpacks for each of the platforms are generated identically, all using >the 200209 versions of the tclkits. > >I believe the unix behavior is correct but the win32 behavior (or my >usage?) is incorrect. I've downloaded the genkit materials and will try >building my own tclkit-win32.exe tomorrow to do some debugging, but I >thought I'd ask if anyone has a suggestion...? Glad you asked. This same issue was emailed to me by Steve Landers a few days ago. We found out that you can insert a bogus "--" arg on the command line to prevent the starpack from using the args. There will be a fix for this, it clearly is a bug in tclkit. -jcw From steve@digital-smarties.com Tue Sep 10 07:27:11 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8ACRAa18637 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:27:10 -0500 Received: (qmail 28637 invoked by uid 8); 10 Sep 2002 12:27:11 -0000 Received: from pc-00061 (192.168.1.61, claiming to be "[192.168.1.61]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdi6C76K; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:27:01 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Steve Pieper" , Subject: Re: [Starkit] command line arg handling on win32 starpack Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:26:56 +0800 Message-Id: <20020910122656.30012@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> References: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Steve, >I'm running into a difference in the way command line arguments to >tclkit are handled between unix and windows. On unix (solaris and >linux) the arguments are passed through to the tcl argv variable as >expected, but on windows my starpack tries to interpret the args as >filenames of a tcl script and gives me "error in startup script". The >starpacks for each of the platforms are generated identically, all using >the 200209 versions of the tclkits. I hit the same problem myself last week. My workaround (after discussion with JCW) is to prefix any arguments with "--" and I put this in my application code if {[lindex $argv 0] eq "--"} { set argv [lrange $argv 1 end] } Given that this particular Starpack was being called from a script, it isn't a big deal for me. But I acknowledge that it is a problem that needs to be looked into longer term. HTH Steve -- Steve Landers Scripting Design Studio Digital Smarties steve@digital-smarties.com Perth, Western Australia www.digital-smarties.com From pieper@bwh.harvard.edu Tue Sep 10 07:56:56 2002 Received: from clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (clifford.bwh.harvard.edu [134.174.9.41]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ACuta20758; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:56:55 -0500 Received: from bwh.harvard.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g8ACuru14168; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3D7DEC0E.2010704@bwh.harvard.edu> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:56:46 -0400 From: Steve Pieper User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Landers , Jean-Claude Wippler CC: starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] command line arg handling on win32 starpack References: <3D7D4FB7.80105@bwh.harvard.edu> <20020910122656.30012@mail.digital-smarties.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Steve and Jean-Claude - Thanks for the quick answers! Sounds like a useful workaround, but won't actually work for my case since I need all platforms to work the same (unix and windows) so can't have the user typing "--" everytime. I started to work on compiling my own tclkit-win32.exe, but I only have msvc7 (.NET) here so I got kind of bogged down. Then I realized that for my simple task freewrap would do the trick, so I'm now using starpacks for linux and solaris and freewrap for windows. But I'll really look forward to a newer tclkit-win32.exe in the future to unify everything. Thanks also for all the hard work. I've been using Mk4tcl in another project and have been watching the evolution of tclkit for a while and think its all amazing stuff. Best, Steve Steve Landers wrote: > Hi Steve, > > >>I'm running into a difference in the way command line arguments to >>tclkit are handled between unix and windows. On unix (solaris and >>linux) the arguments are passed through to the tcl argv variable as >>expected, but on windows my starpack tries to interpret the args as >>filenames of a tcl script and gives me "error in startup script". The >>starpacks for each of the platforms are generated identically, all using >>the 200209 versions of the tclkits. > > > I hit the same problem myself last week. > > My workaround (after discussion with JCW) is to prefix any arguments with > "--" and I put this in my application code > > if {[lindex $argv 0] eq "--"} { > set argv [lrange $argv 1 end] > } > > Given that this particular Starpack was being called from a script, it > isn't a big deal for me. But I acknowledge that it is a problem that > needs to be looked into longer term. > > HTH > > Steve > From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 10 08:52:17 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ADqHa24522 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:52:17 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8ADqC4i009790 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8ADqCv25103; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:52:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020910095212.AAB25084@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] command line arg handling on win32 starpack In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 10 Sep 2002 08:56:46 -0400 To: starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Using the -- before application flags is a pretty common convention in Tk applications. It should work on both platforms. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Tue Sep 10 11:12:10 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8AGCAa04545 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:12:10 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA27034 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:10:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA29379 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:12:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id SRFRD13P; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:12:12 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7E19DC.CEB5E72F@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:12:12 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit Subject: Re: HP-UX tclkit failure [Was Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS 200209)] References: <20020910053608.AAB22184@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry, What I have done so far is: 1) worked with JCW on getting the latest version of tclkit 2) unpacked the tcl.tar.gz file 3) made the following modification to the generic/tclIOUtil.c file (see line 2573) /* * Do we need to set appropriate permissions * on the file? This may be required on some * systems. On Unix we could loop over * the file attributes, and set any that are * called "-permissions" to 0777. Or directly: * * Tcl_Obj* perm = Tcl_NewStringObj("0777",-1); * Tcl_IncrRefCount(perm); * Tcl_FSFileAttrsSet(NULL, 2, copyToPtr, perm); * Tcl_DecrRefCount(perm); * */ Tcl_LoadHandle newLoadHandle = NULL; Tcl_FSUnloadFileProc *newUnloadProcPtr = NULL; FsDivertLoad *tvdlPtr; int retVal; /* vvvvv code added by - tjk */ Tcl_Obj* perm = Tcl_NewStringObj("0777",-1); Tcl_IncrRefCount(perm); Tcl_FSFileAttrsSet(NULL, 2, copyToPtr, perm); Tcl_DecrRefCount(perm); /* ^^^^^ */ 4) modified line 20 in the genkit file to be HP-UX { array set X {gcc cc g++ g++ -static ""} } This was necessary because my installation of SoftBench doesn't have aCC. 5) ran the following build command tclsh genkit A tclsh genkit B tcl sh genkit B tcl itcl mk cd build/`hostname`/mk/.libs ln -s libmk4tcl.sl libmk4tcl.so cp libmk4tcl.a ../. cd ../../../.. sh genkit B 6) tested the result on my application which uses the tktable extention. The result produces the following error on the command line: /usr/lib/dld.sl: Call to mmap() failed - TEXT /var/tmp/tcla21132 /usr/lib/dld.sl: Permission denied and the following "Fatal error" popup. 200704couldn't load file "/var/tmp/tcla21132": permission denied while executing "load /home/rna020/work/retjobdat/src/retjobdat/lib/Tktable2.8/libTktable2.8.sl Tktable" ("package ifneeded" script) ... COMMENTS: a) I tried using using gcc for the cc compiler and that resulted in build errors during the kit build b) The use of g++ seems to work. I'm not smart enough know if it is a problem. c) My next step will be to comment out the code that removes the file from the tmp directory so I can see what it looks like and what its permissions are after it has been placed in tmp. e) I am doing this work not to define a solution but to locate the problem I am having. > >>Does the http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tars/ site have all the > >>8.4.0 updates? If so I would like to do a build with the > >>tclIOUtil.c file fixed to see if that fixes the problem. > > > >Yep, the pub/tk/tars/ area was used for all the recent builds. > > Tom, when you wrote the above, did you mean > "does the tars site have the tcl/vfs/starkit changes to allow HP-UX to > operate correctly" > or did you merely mean > "is the version of the source used to generate the latest round of tclkit > executables on the tar site" > > Because it was my understanding that the fixes for hp-ux in the vfs extension > hadn't occurred yet. > > One issue this summer was this - on hp-ux, dynamic libraries have to have > the file's executable bit set to be able to be loaded. There was various > disagreements over whose responsibility it was to set those permissions; > I saw 3 varients discussed - tcl core, vfs, and the application. > > In _my_ mind, the changes seem necessary to tcl if tcl is going to attempt > to support dynamic loading of extensions on hp-ux. But then, never using > hp-ux, I wasn't certain I understood the issues correctly. > > Now, I don't know whether the problem you are seeing is related to this > issue or if that issue finally was resolved. > > Anyone know for certain? From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 10 13:55:18 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8AItHa20095 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:55:18 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8AItD4i028881 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8AItCg28928; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:55:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:55:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020910145511.AAB28906@cas.org> Subject: Re: HP-UX tclkit failure [Was Re: [Starkit] ANN: Tclkit 8.4.0 (VFS In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:12:12 -0700 To: Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: You might check with Jeff Hobbes and see if this rings any bells with him - I'd guess he is pretty familar with the pains of hp-ux dynamic loading. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Tue Sep 10 16:25:35 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ALPZa02772; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:25:35 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA22328; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:25:38 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA18542; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:23:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YQYJ7; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:25:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3D7E6351.2A705B88@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:25:37 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: Starkit References: <20020910145511.AAB28906@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] HP-UX build of tclkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, SUCCESS!!! The information I posted to Larry actually does work, I had a problem with my testing method. To recap what needs to be done. 1) modify the generic/tclIOUtil.c; if you go to line 2573 my modification look like the following /* * Do we need to set appropriate permissions * on the file? This may be required on some * systems. On Unix we could loop over * the file attributes, and set any that are * called "-permissions" to 0777. Or directly: * * Tcl_Obj* perm = Tcl_NewStringObj("0777",-1); * Tcl_IncrRefCount(perm); * Tcl_FSFileAttrsSet(NULL, 2, copyToPtr, perm); * Tcl_DecrRefCount(perm); * */ Tcl_LoadHandle newLoadHandle = NULL; Tcl_FSUnloadFileProc *newUnloadProcPtr = NULL; FsDivertLoad *tvdlPtr; int retVal; /* vvvvv code added by - tjk */ Tcl_Obj* perm = Tcl_NewStringObj("0777",-1); Tcl_IncrRefCount(perm); Tcl_FSFileAttrsSet(NULL, 2, copyToPtr, perm); Tcl_DecrRefCount(perm); /* ^^^^^ */ 2) modified line 20 in the genkit file to be HP-UX { array set X {gcc cc g++ g++ -static ""} } It appears to be necessary to use the SoftBench cc compiler but the gnu c++ seems to work ok in place of the aCC compiler. I don't have the aCC compiler so couldn't use it. 3) Run the following build command. The cd,ln,cp,cd sequence fixes a bug in the genkit script. tclsh genkit A tclsh genkit B tcl sh genkit B tcl itcl mk cd build/`hostname`/mk/.libs ln -s libmk4tcl.sl libmk4tcl.so cp libmk4tcl.a ../. cd ../../../.. sh genkit B cat install/`hostname`/kit tars/runtime.bin >tclkit chmod +x tclkit 4) At this point you can use the tclkit to build a starkit. I built a starkit that uses the Tktable extension (built by me) and it loaded ok. I monitored the /var/tmp directory and found that the files are not removed because they are locked while they are in use and when the application exits they are not cleaned up. I thing this is the intended behavior but I thought it was worth noting. I also built a starpack from the same source and it worked. The only thing unusual that I found was that I needed two copies of the tclkit to build the starpack. If I tried to do a command that looks like this: ./tclkit sdx.kit wrap myapp -runtime ./tclkit Then I get an error that looks like this: file in use, cannot be prefix: ./tclkit which meant I had to copy ./tclkit to ./tclkit2 and do ./tclkit sdx.kit wrap myapp -runtime ./tclkit2 DISCUSSION: ============ It appears that an HP specific change to the tclIOUtil.c file is required to resolve this problem. I would recommend that the code be ifdef'd with an HP specific symbol but this is really an issue for the TCT to discuss. Regards, Tom Krehbiel From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 10 16:57:14 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ALvDa05863 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 16:57:13 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] HP-UX build of tclkit Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:57:14 +0200 Message-Id: <20020910215714.20109@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7E6351.2A705B88@motorola.com> References: <3D7E6351.2A705B88@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >SUCCESS!!! I take it you can now load extensions on a HP-UX tclkit. Terrific. >To recap what needs to be done. [...] Thanks for summarizing this. I'm sure that once the dust clears for a couple of us involved in all sorts of projects, we'll be able to settle it and make it go into the core in some form. >4) At this point you can use the tclkit to build a starkit. I built a >starkit that uses the Tktable extension (built by me) and it >loaded ok. I monitored the /var/tmp directory and found that the files >are not removed because they are locked while they are in use >and when the application exits they are not cleaned up. I thing this is >the intended behavior but I thought it was worth noting. Hm, they should be. Cleanup is not yet optimal. It used to be that tclkit would leave them around, as cache - but that presents a security issue, and some people don't like the unbounded clutter it can lead to. >I also built a starpack from the same source and it worked. The only >thing unusual that I found was that I needed two copies of the >tclkit to build the starpack. If I tried to do a command that looks like this: > >./tclkit sdx.kit wrap myapp -runtime ./tclkit > >Then I get an error that looks like this: > >file in use, cannot be prefix: ./tclkit Good. You tested a new check I had built in. >which meant I had to copy ./tclkit to ./tclkit2 and do > >./tclkit sdx.kit wrap myapp -runtime ./tclkit2 Perfect conclusion. For now, it has to be that way. I think I have a way to improve this in the future (while mounted on itself, a starkit file looks like a dir, and tclkit itself is a starkit too - no way to copy that as a file, yet). >DISCUSSION: >============ > >It appears that an HP specific change to the tclIOUtil.c file is required >to resolve this problem. I would recommend that the code >be ifdef'd with an HP specific symbol but this is really an issue for the >TCT to discuss. FWIW, I'll do my best to bring it up in Vancouver. -jcw PS. I've been making really good progress on TclKit for MacOS X - *Aqua*. Due to the great advances made recently by Vince, Daniel, and Jim, I've managed to build almost all the pieces into a self-contained package. The only missing part left to do is now zlib, and moving a few scripts around - so TclKit/Aqua may be available much sooner than originally anticipated. With full starkit support, of course. From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 10 18:34:47 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ANYka13014; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:34:46 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Lee Elms" , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Accessing ('open' etc.) files contained in a 'Starkit' ... Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:34:46 +0200 Message-Id: <20020910233447.3301@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D7DE144.2090600@oracle.com> References: <3D7DE144.2090600@oracle.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Lee Elms wrote: (Post manually approved, as sender has not - yet - subscribed) >I've read through all the documentation I can locate, but can't locate >an answer to what I hope is a simple question: > > how do I access (i.e. use the Tcl 'open' command etc.) a file >contained in a 'Starkit' ? > >(I know how to build / update / add Tcl extensions to Startkit's, but >can't find any docs. on to do the above). Hm, the following search did indeed not report much help: The trick is to "mount". You have a starkit called xyz.kit - to use it, you mount it. The convention is to mount the *file* xyz.kit over itself. The result is that it becomes a *directory* xyz.kit/ while mounted. Then you can open files in it, and even make changes (unless mounted read-only). Example mounts: vfs::mk4::Mount xyz.kit xyz.kit vfs::mk4::Mount xyz.kit xyz.kit -readonly Then you can do things like: cd xyz.kit puts [glob *] set fd [open haha] mkdir hurray To unmount (also done automatically on program exit), use: vfs::unmount xyz.kit If changes were made, they will be flushed before unmounting. In fact, changes are also flushed periodically (5s, see $mk4vfs::flush). Try this: cd [info nameofexecutable] cd lib cd tcl8.4 puts [glob *] FYI, you're looking inside the (mounted) tclkit executable. To see all mounted filesystems, do "vfs::filesystem info". The "vfs::filesystem" command is part of the TclVFS extension. That's just the start of what VFS is about. You can also mount zip files, ftp servers, http servers, even webdav servers. And anything else people care to write a VFS driver for (in Tcl or C). Would it make sense to be able to mount /etc/passwd, or the DNS lookup system, or the Tcl proc/var/namespace domains, or a tar file, or a .o's symbol table? Sure, why not - what /proc did for the OS kernel, VFS could do as well... all it would take is a bit of scripting. But I digress :) - I hope the above answers your question. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Wed Sep 11 10:42:41 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BFgfa04214 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:42:41 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8BFga4i000424 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8BFgal02636; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:42:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:42:36 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020911114236.AAB2620@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] can someone explain how to install tclvfs's vfslib ? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: When I look in tclkit.vfs, I see a lib/vfs that contains what appears to be most of tclvfs's vfs library. However, I don't see the libvfs shared library. I'm trying to get tclvfs to work on my platform for normal tclsh and when I do the make install, only the libvfs*.so file and a pkgIndex.tcl to load it get installed. So I'm trying to figure out where the vfslib goes... -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Wed Sep 11 11:00:58 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BG0va05657 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:00:58 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] can someone explain how to install tclvfs's vfslib ? Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:00:47 +0200 Message-Id: <20020911160047.18175@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020911114236.AAB2620@cas.org> References: <20020911114236.AAB2620@cas.org> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >When I look in tclkit.vfs, I see a lib/vfs that contains what appears >to be most of tclvfs's vfs library. > >However, I don't see the libvfs shared library. > >I'm trying to get tclvfs to work on my platform for normal tclsh and >when I do the make install, only the libvfs*.so file and a pkgIndex.tcl >to load it get installed. > >So I'm trying to figure out where the vfslib goes... Yes, I noticed that tclvfs (home at http://tclvfs.sf.net) did not have the proper logic in it for unix shared lib names, only Windows. I committed changes to fix that, but also noted what you describe: the *.tcl files in the vfs/library/ source tree don't seem to get copied into the vfs1.0/ directory where the extension is installed. Trying things out manually, I just copied all the library/*.tcl to vfs1.0/ and things seem to work (on MacOS X, btw). It looks like the TEA-based config setup in TclVFS is either broken or was never completed fully. I hesitate to bother Vince darley with this, I think we both tend to twitch madly when we hear the word "tea" in the same sentence as "installation" :) My hope (and plea ) is that a Tcl/Tea guru will step forward and fix up the logic of the tclvfs build process. I have not had a need for this, given that tclvfs has always been included statically in tclkit, along with the scripts - but there is definitely a good use now that 8.4.0 is out. With all of Vince's VFS magic at last securely in the core, TclVFS + memchan (or rechan) + trf (or zlib) + Mk4tcl would be all one needs to run starkits from a standard Tcl/Tk distribution, such as ActiveTcl. All prior trickery, such as the obscure "pink" extension, is gone for good now. -jcw From andreask@ActiveState.com Wed Sep 11 11:04:59 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BG4wa06027 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:04:59 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BG4ua07890 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:04:56 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8BG4ui22227 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:04:56 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Starkit" Subject: RE: [Starkit] can someone explain how to install tclvfs's vfslib ? Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:04:56 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20020911160047.18175@triqs.com> X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Jean-Claude Wippler > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:01 AM > To: Starkit > Subject: Re: [Starkit] can someone explain how to install tclvfs's > vfslib ? > I hesitate to bother Vince darley with this, I think we both tend to > twitch madly when we hear the word "tea" in the same sentence as > "installation" :) > My hope (and plea ) is that a Tcl/Tea guru will step forward and > fix up the logic of the tclvfs build process. I have not had a need for > this, given that tclvfs has always been included statically in tclkit, > along with the scripts - but there is definitely a good use now that > 8.4.0 is out. > With all of Vince's VFS magic at last securely in the core, TclVFS + > memchan (or rechan) + trf (or zlib) + Mk4tcl would be all one needs to > run starkits from a standard Tcl/Tk distribution, such as ActiveTcl. All > prior trickery, such as the obscure "pink" extension, is gone for > good now. pink ? Do I want to know what this did ? -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com Join Tcl'2002 in Vancouver http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ ** Registration is open ** From lvirden@cas.org Wed Sep 11 11:20:38 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8BGKca07093 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 11:20:38 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8BGKY4i011636 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8BGKYp03453; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:20:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:20:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020911122034.AAB3429@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] can someone explain how to install tclvfs's vfslib ? In-Reply-To: <20020911160047.18175@triqs.com> of Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:00:47 +0200 To: Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >> So I'm trying to figure out where the vfslib goes... > but also noted what you describe: the > *.tcl files in the vfs/library/ source tree don't seem to get copied into > the vfs1.0/ directory where the extension is installed. Trying things > out manually, I just copied all the library/*.tcl to vfs1.0/ and things > seem to work (on MacOS X, btw). I thought about just copying the files there - but then that replaces the pkgIndex.tcl that is already there that says: package ifneeded vfs 1.0 [list load [file join $dir ../libvfs1.0g.so]] with this line: package ifneeded vfs 1.0 [list loadvfs $file] That's okay to do? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From cferril@mchsi.com Wed Sep 11 23:48:57 2002 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8C4mva26165 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:48:57 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020912044856.LIMZ2075.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@suse80> for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 04:48:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Chuck Ferril To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 23:56:10 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200209112356.10664.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g8C4mva26165 Subject: [Starkit] Old version of SDX Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have been trying to build a starkit but it always complains that main.tcl is missing. It appears to be looking in the root of the VFS and not in the bin directory where the file is actually located. I've been using the latest tclkit for linux-x86 (200209) with no luck. I tried older versions of tclkit with the same results. It finally started working once I went to the 'old' version of SDX. I'm guessing that I am doing something wrong...but I'm stumped. Here is my simple test using files from http://mini.net/sdarchive/: >./tclkit-linux-x86 sdx.kit unwrap clock.kit 4 updates applied >mv clock.kit clock.save >./tclkit-linux-x86 sdx.kit wrap clock.kit 4 updates applied >./tclkit-linux-x86 clock.kit couldn't read file "./clock.kit/main.tcl": no such file or directory while executing "source ./clock.kit/main.tcl" ("uplevel" body line 1) invoked from within "uplevel [list source [file join $self main.tcl]]" This works when I used sdx-old.bin from http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/examples/ Any suggestions? Thanks, Chuck From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 12 03:13:06 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8C8D5a02229; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 03:13:05 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Chuck Ferril" , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Old version of SDX Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:13:06 +0200 Message-Id: <20020912081306.16715@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <200209112356.10664.cferril@mchsi.com> References: <200209112356.10664.cferril@mchsi.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Chuck Ferril wrote: (Post manually approved, as sender has not - yet - subscribed) >I have been trying to build a starkit but it always complains that >main.tcl is >missing. It appears to be looking in the root of the VFS and not in the bin >directory where the file is actually located. I've been using the latest >tclkit for linux-x86 (200209) with no luck. I tried older versions of tclkit >with the same results. > >It finally started working once I went to the 'old' version of SDX. I'm >guessing that I am doing something wrong...but I'm stumped. > >Here is my simple test using files from http://mini.net/sdarchive/: > >>./tclkit-linux-x86 sdx.kit unwrap clock.kit > 4 updates applied >>mv clock.kit clock.save >>./tclkit-linux-x86 sdx.kit wrap clock.kit > 4 updates applied >>./tclkit-linux-x86 clock.kit > couldn't read file "./clock.kit/main.tcl": no such file or directory > while executing > "source ./clock.kit/main.tcl" > ("uplevel" body line 1) > invoked from within > "uplevel [list source [file join $self main.tcl]]" > >This works when I used sdx-old.bin from http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/examples/ > >Any suggestions? This is caused by a recent change in SDX/TclKit handling of starkits, though I don't quite understand how. Here's what I know: The *OLD* SDX has commands like "fs2sd" and "sd2fs". I creates a starkit with a header that does "package require scripdoc". That package is inside all versions of tclkit and looks for the bin/main.tcl startup file. That file must do things like "[file dir [info source]]" to locate other files inside the starkit. Teh *NEW* SDX has commands like "wrap" and "unwrap". I creates a starkit with a header that does "package require starkit". That package is only in recent versions of tclkit (starting July 2002 or so) and looks for the ./main.tcl startup file. That file must do "starkit::startup" to set up things, and is generally more robust for use in a starpack and in unpacked mode. My thought was that this logic would not cause problems, because the only thing that could not work is using the new SDX with an old tclkit, but that would not happen since SDX itself is a new starkit, and would itself fail to run. I seem to have messed up something. I'll look into it. -jcw From Lee.Elms@oracle.com Thu Sep 12 07:33:17 2002 Received: from inet-mail1.oracle.com (inet-mail1.oracle.com [148.87.2.201]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8CCXHa17291 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:33:17 -0500 Received: from inet-mail1.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by inet-mail1.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g8CCXGe03623 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:33:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (rgmgw1.us.oracle.com [138.1.191.10]) by inet-mail1.oracle.com (Switch-2.2.3/Switch-2.2.3) with ESMTP id g8CCXEC03593 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 05:33:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g8CCXDv06842 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oracle.com (DHCP-Data-Centre-222-90.uk.oracle.com [138.3.222.90]) by rgmgw1.us.oracle.com (Switch-2.1.3/Switch-2.1.0) with ESMTP id g8CCXCf06789 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 06:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <3D808985.5090309@oracle.com> Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:33:09 +0100 From: Lee Elms Organization: Oracle Corporation User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] How do I extend Tclkit to include some 'C' (i.e. not pure TCL) extensions ... Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Assuming this is possible, can someone point me instructions as to how I extend Tclkit (I am particularly interested in doing this on HP/UX) to include a number of extensions such as 'tclx', 'oratcl' and 'expect' ... From lvirden@cas.org Thu Sep 12 07:41:12 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8CCfCa17895 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:41:12 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8CCf94i001119 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8CCf9F02113; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:41:09 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020912084109.AAB2074@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] How do I extend Tclkit to include some 'C' (i.e. not pure TCL) extensions In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 12 Sep 2002 13:33:09 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Re: how to extend tclkit There are two technical answers to your question 1. Yes, you can extend tclkit. You download the sdx.kit application, unwrap tclkit itself, plug the new code into the appropriate directories, wrap the tclkit back up, and you are golden. 2. No, the tclkit intent is that there be one standard set of options within tclkit. The way to use tclkit with more extensions is to build a starkit (see for more info) . Then you distribute either 2 or 3 files: a standard tclkit for the platform, a starkit containing your application, and a starkit containing the extra extensions. Of course, you could combine the last two of these into one starkit, or you could even create what is known as a starpack, which is a tclkit and one or more starkits , combined into one file. In fact, if you check out you will see an early experiment at this - kitten contains a couple of dozen extensions bundled together into a starkit. During next week's Tcl conference, there are going to be several sessions on starkits and tclkit. It is my understanding that at least one of these is going to be proposing a new format for a replacement of kitten - I don't know if a new sample is going to be available or not. -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From contact_mel@yahoo.com Thu Sep 12 09:07:42 2002 Received: from web12303.mail.yahoo.com (web12303.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.173.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8CE7ga23774 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:07:42 -0500 Message-ID: <20020912140746.12039.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [151.202.102.230] by web12303.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:07:46 PDT Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 07:07:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Mel To: starkit@equi4.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Subject: [Starkit] Iwidgets and Incr Tcl in Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: i am desparate to integrate Iwidgets into a starkit application. Kitten does not work ! any pointers are appreciated Mel __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 12 09:18:00 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8CEHva24648 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:17:58 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Iwidgets and Incr Tcl in Starkit Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:17:55 +0200 Message-Id: <20020912141755.22612@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020912140746.12039.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020912140746.12039.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mel wrote: >i am desparate to integrate Iwidgets into a starkit application. > >Kitten does not work ! > >any pointers are appreciated The incrtl issue was reported recently on this mailing list. It looks like incrtcl/incrtk do not work in kitten because they are version 3.2, while tclkit includes incrtcl 3.3 (no incrtk). The solution IMO: unwrap kitten replace incrtl and incrtk with 3.3 builds wrap kitten up again I won't have time to deal with this now, nor during next week's Tcl/Tk conference, sorry. -jcw From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Thu Sep 12 09:18:58 2002 Received: from dallas.jhuapl.edu (dallas.jhuapl.edu [128.244.197.22]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8CEIwa24752 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:18:58 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) id <0H2B00501X3GQI@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:18:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) with ESMTP id <0H2B00LJ8X3BNY@dallas.jhuapl.edu>; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:18:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g8CEIlh26067; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:18:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:18:47 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Subject: Re: [Starkit] Iwidgets and Incr Tcl in Starkit In-reply-to: <20020912140746.12039.qmail@web12303.mail.yahoo.com> X-Sender: jhz@aplexus.jhuapl.edu To: Mel Cc: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: aplexus.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I also need Iwidgets in my starkits. Some time ago I spent significant time trying to use kitten (no Iwidgets implementation for Solaris, as I remember) and then trying to build my own starkit adding the Iwidgets (and Itk) packages. The closest I got, and where I stopped, was to get some runtime complaints about Iwidgets requiring different versions of Itk or Tk. I could never get versions correct and gave up for the time being. I did succed in adding tclX and some other packages to my starkit, and they worked, mostly, but Iwidgets is problematic, maybe since it requires intermediate packages. On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Mel wrote: > i am desparate to integrate Iwidgets into a starkit application. > > Kitten does not work ! > > any pointers are appreciated > > Mel > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! News - Today's headlines > http://news.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 12 09:31:14 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.190] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8CEVCa25739 for ; Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:31:13 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Iwidgets and Incr Tcl in Starkit Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:31:14 +0200 Message-Id: <20020912143114.11821@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu wrote: >I also need Iwidgets in my starkits. Some time ago I spent significant >time trying to use kitten (no Iwidgets implementation for Solaris, as I >remember) and then trying to build my own starkit adding the Iwidgets (and >Itk) packages. The closest I got, and where I stopped, was to get some >runtime complaints about Iwidgets requiring different versions of Itk or >Tk. I could never get versions correct and gave up for the time being. I >did succed in adding tclX and some other packages to my starkit, and they >worked, mostly, but Iwidgets is problematic, maybe since it requires >intermediate packages. I'm sorry to hear that - but this appears to confirm the versioning issue. Note that kitten has become a lot simpler to use. You can now simply do a "source kitten.kit" in your app, and you'll be able to package require everything stored in kitten after doing so. No more more "mounts", etc. This was one of the reasons to move from the scripdoc to the starkit package - the new design is simpler and more flexible. I would definitely advise re-trying things. It really need not be more than: sdx unwrap kitten.kit cp ... kitten.vfs/lib/... sdx wrap kitten.kit The issue being of course to have the proper build handy, and to make sure all scripts and binaries from itcl, itk, and iwidgets get copied to the right place - i.e. overwriting what there is now. You may need to avoid overwriting the pkgIndex.tcl files, they were tweaked to make itcl work with multiple platform builds of the shared libs. As I said, all I can do for now is help others along - which to be honest, is definitely a better long term solution than me being in the loop. Note that one of the plans is to revisit kitten soon, and make it conform to the new directory an dpackage structure, i.e. like other starkits. -jcw From rohan@rohanpall.com Wed Sep 18 15:16:40 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8IKGea24722 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 15:16:40 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8IKGnb30381 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:16:49 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2273.10.3.36.17.1032380209.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] writable and flushing to disk Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've got a writable starkit with my mindweb app in it. All its data is stored in the starkit. Its super easy to run on my friends computers. I wrote a little editor (thanks to tcltk) and it edits the source code, then tests the new version of mindweb in a new interp that I launch from my embedded tkcon. So now my development is all done from my starkit. Which is pretty cool. I just need a diff in tcl, and some bonuses to my editor and I'm laughing. But I'm getting a little problem. My changes are only saved when I quit the app - thats when the starkit is written to disk. I'm assuming that all my changes are done in memory, even when I close files that are part of the starkit. I'm worried that I'll be coding all day, making revisions to mindweb, saving it all in the starkit, and just generally having a ball - and then my win95 box will hang and I'll be outta luck since nothing got written to disk. There is no doubt in my mind that this issue will be resolved. I'm astounded by the capabilities of starkits. I can't bear the thought of returning to old development methods. I'm hooked to starkits - and whats more - I like it. From rohan@rohanpall.com Wed Sep 18 18:09:01 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8IN8ta29595 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:09:01 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8IN94b03505 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:09:04 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4650.10.3.36.17.1032390544.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:09:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] mysterious bytes Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm not using the embedded metakit database engine. When I unwrap my kit then rewrap it, the kit has shrinked in size. Every time I run the kit it grows a little itty bit. I'm curious as to what is happening. Not curious enough to go through genkit though ;) I'd appreciate it very much if you could shed some light on the darkness of my soul. ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ l total 448 drwx------ 2 ro users 4096 Sep 18 18:49 ./ drwx------ 4 ro users 8192 Sep 18 19:19 ../ -rwx--x--x 1 ro users 441091 Sep 18 19:15 info-tokyo.kit* ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ sdx unwrap info-tokyo.kit 236 updates applied ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ rm *kit ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ l total 16 drwx------ 3 ro users 4096 Sep 18 19:20 ./ drwx------ 4 ro users 8192 Sep 18 19:19 ../ drwx------ 6 ro users 4096 Sep 18 19:20 info-tokyo.vfs/ ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ sdx wrap info-tokyo.kit -writable 236 updates applied ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo$ l total 436 drwx------ 3 ro users 4096 Sep 18 19:20 ./ drwx------ 4 ro users 8192 Sep 18 19:19 ../ -rwx--x--x 1 ro users 424252 Sep 18 19:20 info-tokyo.kit* drwx------ 6 ro users 4096 Sep 18 19:20 info-tokyo.vfs/ ro@absorb:~/tcltk/programs/info-tokyo From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Wed Sep 18 20:17:56 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8J1Hua00965 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:17:56 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id SAA25563 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:18:27 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id SAA23372 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:18:05 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRG2A; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:18:04 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:18:04 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> <20020821225326.13231@mail.digital-smarties.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Command Line Problem Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have just run into a problem that I don't understand (maybe a bug). I'm working on unix and I want to pass in arguments that contain spaces. My test case looks like this: test A "B C" The script (called 'main.tcl') looks like this. ------------------------------------------ #!/bin/sh # the next line restarts this file using a tcl shell \ exec tclsh "$0" ${1+"$@"} if { [lsearch -exact [package names] vfslib] != -1 } { package require starkit if {[starkit::startup] eq "sourced"} return set root [file dirname [vfs::normalize [info script]]] lappend auto_path [file join $root app] puts "(starkit run)" } else { set root [pwd] lappend auto_path [file join $root app] puts "(normal run)" } #puts [join $auto_path \n] package require Tcl puts "0: '$argv0'" set i 1 foreach arg $argv { puts "$i: '$arg'" incr i } -------------------------------------------- Here is the problem. When I cd into test.vfs and run the main.tcl file as a normal script it returns: % main.tcl A "B C" (normal run) 0: 'main.tcl' 1: 'A' 2: 'B C' If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starkit and run it, it returns: % test A "B C" (starkit run) 0: 'test' 1: 'A' 2: 'B' 3: 'C' If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starpack and run it, it returns: % test A "B C" (starkit run) 0: '/tmp/test/main.tcl' 1: 'A' 2: 'B C' The starkit command line parsing appears to have a bug, unless I did something stupid. Regards, Tom Krehbiel From rohan@rohanpall.com Wed Sep 18 20:50:22 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8J1oFa01460 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:50:22 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8J1oJk28410 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:50:19 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:50:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> References: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> <20020821225326.13231@mail.digital-smarties.com> <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I haven't figured out why you had that problem, but I did want to comment on part of your code: > if { [lsearch -exact [package names] vfslib] != -1 } { > package require starkit > if {[starkit::startup] eq "sourced"} return > set root [file dirname [vfs::normalize [info script]]] Here you normalize the path using the vfs wrapper. I suggest you use the line set root [file normalize [file dirname [info script]]] since you know that you're in a starkit, and starkits have 8.4 > lappend auto_path [file join $root app] > puts "(starkit run)" > } else { > set root [pwd] I suggest that you do the same sort of getting the real path - you might be executing it from a different directory set root [file dirname [info script]] I don't suggest you use the 'file normalize' since you might not have 8.4 when running as a script. > lappend auto_path [file join $root app] > puts "(normal run)" > } > > #puts [join $auto_path \n] > > package require Tcl > > puts "0: '$argv0'" > set i 1 > foreach arg $argv { > puts "$i: '$arg'" > incr i > } > -------------------------------------------- > The starkit command line parsing appears to have a bug, unless I did > something stupid. Sure seems that way. Good luck and happy tcling! ro From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Sep 19 10:16:00 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JFG0a26478 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:16:00 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA05838 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:16:09 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA05129 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:16:09 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRG42; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:16:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3D89EA38.B67A8D90@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:16:08 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem References: <3D63B267.F3C3F0C4@motorola.com> <20020821225326.13231@mail.digital-smarties.com> <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Rohan, Thanks for the help on coding the search path. I'm spending most of my spare time just converting legacy code and my environment to do the tclkit, starkit and starpack thing, plus converting to 8.4 so I haven't yet worried to much about the right way to get the job done. Tom K. > > I haven't figured out why you had that problem, but I did want to comment > on part of your code: > > > if { [lsearch -exact [package names] vfslib] != -1 } { > > package require starkit > > if {[starkit::startup] eq "sourced"} return > > set root [file dirname [vfs::normalize [info script]]] > > Here you normalize the path using the vfs wrapper. I suggest you use the > line > set root [file normalize [file dirname [info script]]] > since you know that you're in a starkit, and starkits have 8.4 > > > lappend auto_path [file join $root app] > > puts "(starkit run)" > > } else { > > set root [pwd] > > I suggest that you do the same sort of getting the real path - you might > be executing it from a different directory > set root [file dirname [info script]] > I don't suggest you use the 'file normalize' since you might not have 8.4 > when running as a script. > > > lappend auto_path [file join $root app] > > puts "(normal run)" > > } > > > > #puts [join $auto_path \n] > > > > package require Tcl > > > > puts "0: '$argv0'" > > set i 1 > > foreach arg $argv { > > puts "$i: '$arg'" > > incr i > > } > > -------------------------------------------- > > > The starkit command line parsing appears to have a bug, unless I did > > something stupid. > > Sure seems that way. > > Good luck and happy tcling! > > ro From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 19 12:30:40 2002 Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([208.181.145.243]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHUda31480 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:30:39 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] writable and flushing to disk Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 07:44:06 -0700 Message-Id: <20020919144406.19923@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <2273.10.3.36.17.1032380209.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> References: <2273.10.3.36.17.1032380209.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Rohan Pall wrote: [good stuff] >But I'm getting a little problem. My changes are only saved when I quit >the app - thats when the starkit is written to disk. I'm assuming that >all my changes are done in memory, even when I close files that are part >of the starkit. > >I'm worried that I'll be coding all day, making revisions to mindweb, >saving it all in the starkit, and just generally having a ball - and then >my win95 box will hang and I'll be outta luck since nothing got written >to disk. Starkits default to saving (i.e. comitting) changes to file every 5 seconds. Furthermore, closing the starkit of course also commits. You could alter the flush rate (see $mk4vfs::flush in mk4vfs.tcl), or perhaps we could expose the flush functionality in a decent way. But the question which comes to mind, is whether it is necessary to go that way. In the case of Unix, there is a similar issue: changes to files only get committed every once in a while. Unix offers sync and fsync system calls, but these are not normally uses in application code, as far as I know. My suggestion would be to try and make sure the 5s flush is functioning: edit your code, wait a bit, edit some more and kill the app. Then reopen and verify that the first change got in. -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 19 12:30:41 2002 Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([208.181.145.243]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHUea31484 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:30:40 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] mysterious bytes Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:11:02 -0700 Message-Id: <20020919151102.32395@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <4650.10.3.36.17.1032390544.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> References: <4650.10.3.36.17.1032390544.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Rohan Pall wrote: >I'm not using the embedded metakit database engine. Let me add that when you are using starkits, you are - under the hood. And when you are using starkits in -writable mode, you will see commits whenever files/dirs inside are modified. >When I unwrap my kit then rewrap it, the kit has shrinked in size. Every >time I run the kit it grows a little itty bit. I'm curious as to what is >happening. There used to be a bug (over 2 years ago), whereby commits would extend the database file, even when nothing was changed. As far as I know, this has been resolved. What does force a datafile to grow, is storing a growing number of rows of data. The columns of each view needs to be stored in unused space, and if columns keep getting bigger, then it is very plausible that there are not slots in the file to hold them, forcing an extend. Metakit does not collapse files by itself. The current approach is to occasionally do this your self. Here's an example that optimizes space usage: mk::file open db mydata.dat -readonly set fd [open newdata w] mk::file save db $fd close $fd mk::file close db file rename -force newdata mydata.dat If you are opening the starkit in writable mode and certain that no changes are being saved to it, and it still grows, then please do try to dig in and find out if you can create a small example I can debug. -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 19 12:30:42 2002 Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([208.181.145.243]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHUfa31490 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:30:42 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:20:37 -0700 Message-Id: <20020919152037.25597@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> References: <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >I have just run into a problem that I don't understand (maybe a bug). Yes, it looks, walks, and quacks like a bug to me... >puts "0: '$argv0'" >set i 1 >foreach arg $argv { > puts "$i: '$arg'" > incr i >} [...] >If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starkit and run it, it returns: > >% test A "B C" >(starkit run) >0: 'test' >1: 'A' >2: 'B' >3: 'C' > >If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starpack and run it, it returns: > >% test A "B C" >(starkit run) >0: '/tmp/test/main.tcl' >1: 'A' >2: 'B C' > >The starkit command line parsing appears to have a bug, unless I did >something stupid. Thanks for exposing this problem so clearly. It'll help track this down. The tclkit main code does very nasty things to try to get all use scenario's right (see src/kitInit.c in the TclKit distribution). There is also the "eats first arg as script when used as starpack on windows" bug. I'll try to have a fix for this in the next tclkit builds - and perhaps even a way to work around it with the existing builds. -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 19 12:30:43 2002 Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([208.181.145.243]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHUha31493 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:30:43 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 08:29:37 -0700 Message-Id: <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> References: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Rohan Pall wrote: >I haven't figured out why you had that problem, but I did want to comment >on part of your code: > >> if { [lsearch -exact [package names] vfslib] != -1 } { >> package require starkit >> if {[starkit::startup] eq "sourced"} return >> set root [file dirname [vfs::normalize [info script]]] > >Here you normalize the path using the vfs wrapper. I suggest you use the >line > set root [file normalize [file dirname [info script]]] >since you know that you're in a starkit, and starkits have 8.4 FYI, with the new starkit package, you also get the variable $::starkit::topdir - it is always set and normalized, so that last suggestion can now also be written as: set root $::starkit::topdir -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Sep 19 12:47:56 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHlua32320 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:47:56 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id KAA15298 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:48:06 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA15190 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:48:06 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRHFP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:48:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A0DD5.C9AA51AF@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:48:05 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem References: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, > FYI, with the new starkit package, you also get the variable > $::starkit::topdir - it is always set and normalized, so that last > suggestion can now also be written as: > set root $::starkit::topdir I like it :-). My work-a-round for the command line problem is to just use starpack's since that is what I ship anyway. Tom K. From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 12:58:11 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHwBa00409 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:58:11 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JHwLb28358 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 10:58:21 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3562.10.3.36.17.1032458301.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:58:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> References: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude Wippler said: > Rohan Pall wrote: > >>Here you normalize the path using the vfs wrapper. I suggest you use >> the line >> set root [file normalize [file dirname [info script]]] >>since you know that you're in a starkit, and starkits have 8.4 > > FYI, with the new starkit package, you also get the variable > $::starkit::topdir - it is always set and normalized, so that last > suggestion can now also be written as: > set root $::starkit::topdir The reason why I go with setting the root manually instead of depending on $::starkit::topdir is more easily understood when you know my standard vfs layout: main.tcl lib/app-hello/hello.tcl lib/app-hello/pkgIndex.tcl I usually set the root in hello.tcl, that way I can execute hello.tcl with any tcltk interpreter (depending on available extensions, of course) including tclkit. I reserve main.tcl for tclkit. The value of this approach depreciates when I make more and more use of tclkit's standard features because then you nearly always will need tclkit, and will want to execute main.tcl. Come to think of it, maybe it would be better if I were to make main.tcl the entry point for any interpreter and do a case by case thing - it would be cool if someone who has thought of these issues could give me a suggestion ;) I'd rather not solve this time and time again. I'd like to figure out a standard way and write a little script to set up the vfs for me so I can start new projects without worrying about these things... as a project becomes more customized I might have to edit it manually, but for the easy things I'd like them to stay easy ;) Thanks for your help! ro P.S. Keep the wiki simple jcw! It works great! From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 13:03:17 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JI3Ga00721 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:03:16 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JI3Fb28528; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:03:16 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4745.10.3.36.17.1032458596.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] writable and flushing to disk From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <200209191746.NAA27520@hippolyta.crd.ge.com> References: Message from "Rohan Pall" <200209191746.NAA27520@hippolyta.crd.ge.com> Cc: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Kevin Kenny said: > > rohan@rohanpall.com said: >> I just need a diff in tcl [...] > > Does http://wiki.tcl.tk/3108 help? Sure looks like it will. Its marked on my list 'to examine in depth'. Oh and thanks for that in-depth article and exercise set on the 'after' command. Thats also on my list. ro From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 13:07:29 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JI7Ta00927 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:07:29 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JI7db28646 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 11:07:39 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1774.10.3.36.17.1032458859.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:07:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] mysterious bytes From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <20020919151102.32395@triqs.com> References: <4650.10.3.36.17.1032390544.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <20020919151102.32395@triqs.com> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > If you are opening the starkit in writable mode and certain that no > changes are being saved to it, and it still grows, then please do try In my previous example I showed how I unwrapped the kit, then rewrapped it. The resulting kit is smaller than the original. Why is that? If any changes were being made to it that resulted in the vfs actually growing, then wouldn't rewrapping it not make any difference barring any caching that metakit does that I don't know about? Thanks! ro From kennykb@hippolyta.crd.ge.com Thu Sep 19 12:46:49 2002 Received: from ext-nj2gw-1.online-age.net (ext-nj2gw-1.online-age.net [216.35.73.163]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHkna32254 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:46:49 -0500 Received: from int-nj2gw-1.online-age.net (int-nj2gw-1.online-age.net [3.159.236.65]) by ext-nj2gw-1.online-age.net (8.12.3/8.9.1/990426-RLH) with ESMTP id g8JHkqQl014873; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from crdns.crd.ge.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by int-nj2gw-1.online-age.net (8.12.3/8.12.3/990426-RLH) with ESMTP id g8JHkjr2014383; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hippolyta.crd.ge.com (hippolyta.crd.ge.com [3.1.7.7]) by crdns.crd.ge.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JHkjb05665; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hippolyta by hippolyta.crd.ge.com (8.9.3+Sun/GE-CRD Standard Sendmail Version S1.5) id NAA27520; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200209191746.NAA27520@hippolyta.crd.ge.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.2 06/23/2000 with nmh-1.0.4 From: kennykb@crd.ge.com (Kevin Kenny) Organization: Advanced Computing Technologies, GE Global Research Center To: "Rohan Pall" cc: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] writable and flushing to disk X-Face: 5*Bwl\0iY*1'W~D~c2foEA#,\H[\j3:fTgL0QDgl'0/_fV8X|GO>!b`fdiNc{Ioj6u7a{qq 1h+JHjg)m(|axb2m&0{I9cl5lQ9OeK\vdx=Ca]v9No,e'd~rIQ'ei,%J!^+@w|2/fLdXMKEOIh85kr plx|`3lxhu#KWB;}OjDeAg^ X-URI: http://ce-toolkit.crd.ge.com/people/kennykb.html X-Image-URL: http://192.35.44.8/people/kennykb.gif X-No-Matter-Where-You-Go: There you are. In-Reply-To: Message from "Rohan Pall" of "Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:16:49 EDT." <2273.10.3.36.17.1032380209.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:46:45 -0400 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: rohan@rohanpall.com said: > I just need a diff in tcl [...] Does http://wiki.tcl.tk/3108 help? -- 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin KENNY GE Corporate Research & Development kennykb@crd.ge.com P. O. Box 8, Bldg. K-1, Rm. 5B36A Schenectady, New York 12301-0008 USA From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Sep 19 15:22:58 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JKMwa05763; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:22:58 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id NAA06604; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:23:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id NAA13256; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:23:08 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRHSR; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:22:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A31FD.C81A30F3@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:22:21 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Command Line Problem References: <3D8925CC.1CCACEDB@motorola.com> <20020919152037.25597@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, Oops, I found the problem. The problem was with a script I use to select the correct tclkit to use based on the platform I'm currently on. That script wasn't properly handling the command line args which was why the second case was having a problem. Regards, Tom Krehbiel > > Tom Krehbiel wrote: > > >I have just run into a problem that I don't understand (maybe a bug). > > Yes, it looks, walks, and quacks like a bug to me... > > >puts "0: '$argv0'" > >set i 1 > >foreach arg $argv { > > puts "$i: '$arg'" > > incr i > >} > [...] > >If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starkit and run it, it returns: > > > >% test A "B C" > >(starkit run) > >0: 'test' > >1: 'A' > >2: 'B' > >3: 'C' > > > >If I then wrap the test.vfs directory into a starpack and run it, it returns: > > > >% test A "B C" > >(starkit run) > >0: '/tmp/test/main.tcl' > >1: 'A' > >2: 'B C' > > > >The starkit command line parsing appears to have a bug, unless I did > >something stupid. > > Thanks for exposing this problem so clearly. It'll help track this down. > The tclkit main code does very nasty things to try to get all use > scenario's right (see src/kitInit.c in the TclKit distribution). There > is also the "eats first arg as script when used as starpack on windows" > bug. I'll try to have a fix for this in the next tclkit builds - and > perhaps even a way to work around it with the existing builds. From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 15:56:15 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JKuEa07177 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:56:14 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JKuOk29516 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:56:24 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:56:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2365.10.3.36.17.1032468984.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:56:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] win95, win98 crashing -- bug isolated Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There is a bug when binary extensions are loaded in windows. It crashes on exit. See the following 'main.tcl' script. You could substitute any binary package loading for the ones that I chose. I chose these because the NewzPoint starkit works fine with windows - so I cut away the code until I found these two special lines. If any one of these two lines are commented out, you will witness a crashing on exit. ------------------------------ package require starkit starkit::startup package require Tk set topdir $starkit::topdir wm title . "Force Crash" load [file join $topdir libtkdnd.dll] source [file join $topdir tkDND_Utils.tcl] load [file join $topdir ffidl05.dll] ffidl load [file join $topdir optcl.dll] optcl # c r a s h e r set sock [socket -server {} 4395] # c r a s h e r wm protocol . WM_DELETE_WINDOW exit ------------------------------------------- Happy Tcl'ing! ro From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Sep 19 16:35:02 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JLZ2a08390 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:35:02 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA08863 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:35:12 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA13299 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:35:12 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRH5V; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:35:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:35:11 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> <3562.10.3.36.17.1032458301.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] sdx help Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I just noticed that the sdx help command (at least for wrap) wasn't updated when the last set of changes were made. Tom K. From steve@digital-smarties.com Thu Sep 19 16:47:57 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8JLlta08809 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:47:56 -0500 Received: (qmail 8383 invoked by uid 8); 19 Sep 2002 21:48:04 -0000 Received: from server.digital-smarties.com (192.168.1.2, claiming to be "[192.168.1.22]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdL2Oraz; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:47:56 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Tom Krehbiel" Cc: Subject: Re: [Starkit] sdx help Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:47:28 -0700 Message-Id: <20020919214728.12834@localhost:1025> In-Reply-To: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> References: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom >I just noticed that the sdx help command (at least for wrap) wasn't >updated when the last set of changes were made. Oops - trying to cram too much in before the conference. I'm doing an update to sdx at the moment (tidying up qwrap, changing to the recommended starkit directory structure, provision for an internal help wiki, etc). I'll look at the help messages at the same time. Thanks Steve From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 17:02:41 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JM2ea09292 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:02:40 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JM2nk32175 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:02:49 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3513.10.3.36.17.1032472969.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:02:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] sdx help From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <20020919214728.12834@localhost:1025> References: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> <20020919214728.12834@localhost:1025> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Landers said: > I'm doing an update to sdx at the moment (tidying up qwrap, changing to > the recommended starkit directory structure, provision for an internal > help wiki, etc). I'll look at the help messages at the same time. The writable option is missing. It took me a fair amount of digging to find it since I didn't know it existed. On jcw's wiki is still says that starkits are read-only by default. I understand that you guys are busy, since you've done such excellent work. Thanks again. And Steve, your paper rocked! Thanks for uploading it ;) Rohan From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Sep 19 17:04:14 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JM4Da09363 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:04:13 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA08848 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:04:23 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA14004 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:01:41 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRH9C; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:04:22 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8A49E6.A61C86E3@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:04:22 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Landers CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] sdx help References: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> <20020919214728.12834@localhost:1025> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve, Since you're working on sdx please add a -suffix option that can be used to add a user defined suffix (like '.kit') to the output file. Also, I just tried using wikit and it failed with % error: unknown color name "darkgrey" (processing "-disabledfill" option) invoked from within "$canvas itemconfigure $tag1 -disabledfill $disabledfill" (object "::Wikit::gButton0" method "::gButton::new" body line 23) invoked from within "$b0 new Back " (procedure "Wikit::LocalInterface" line 58) invoked from within "Wikit::LocalInterface " After I changed the color to grey it worked ok. Colors and other setting should be handled through the tk option command so problems don't generate errors. I really like the wikit BTW. Tom K. > Tom > > >I just noticed that the sdx help command (at least for wrap) wasn't > >updated when the last set of changes were made. > > Oops - trying to cram too much in before the conference. > > I'm doing an update to sdx at the moment (tidying up qwrap, changing to > the recommended starkit directory structure, provision for an internal > help wiki, etc). I'll look at the help messages at the same time. From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 17:08:28 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JM8Ra09542 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:08:28 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JM8ck32342; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:08:38 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4413.10.3.36.17.1032473318.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:08:38 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020919143621.0ac7b08c@mailserver.sfu.ca> References: <3.0.6.16.20020919111624.3dc76db0@mailserver.sfu.ca> <3.0.6.16.20020919111624.3dc76db0@mailserver.sfu.ca> <3.0.6.16.20020919143621.0ac7b08c@mailserver.sfu.ca> Cc: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] Re: Crash - partial workaround Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Here is some rather good bug-hunting that Ian Gay has been engaged in. He's found a work-around for that annoying crash-on-exit bug, that doesn't rely on those two ugly lines of code that I wrote about earlier. Ian Gay said: > At 17:05 19/09/02 -0400, you wrote: >>Ian Gay said: >>> When you load a dll, tclkit copies it from the vfs to $env(temp) and >>> loads the real file so produced. (And when you get the exit crash, >>> that doesn't get deleted & you build up lots of garbage in your TEMP >>> directory, since it uses a different name each time.) >>> >>> If you do it 'manually', e.g. do the copy yourself in main.tcl, and >>> specifically load the real file so produced, rather than loading from >>> the vfs, then there is no crash. >>> >>> This is not a complete workaround, since you then have no way of >>> deleting the file from within your tclkit (Windows thinks it's in >>> use, tcl has no unload command). >>> >>> But at least you can always save under the same name, so there's only >>> one file left in TEMP. >>> >>> Ian >> >>Could you please send this message to the starkit mailing list? >>starkit@equi4.com >> >>Or I could just forward it... these bugs REALLY need to be fixed ;) >> >>ro >> > > By all means forward it. What versions of windows have you tried? Your > post to the mailing list sounds rather generic. I find the crash on 95, > 98 and ME, but _not_ on NT. I haven't been able to test it on 2k or XP > yet. Does this agree with your experiences? I have seen the bug on an almost totally clean install of win95, and on win98, the first edition. The win98 box has a lot of software installed. ro From rohan@rohanpall.com Thu Sep 19 17:14:30 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8JMEUa09792 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 17:14:30 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8JMEek32519 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 15:14:40 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1389.10.3.36.17.1032473680.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 18:14:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <3D8A49E6.A61C86E3@motorola.com> References: <3D8A430F.9CE86E6E@motorola.com> <20020919214728.12834@localhost:1025> <3D8A49E6.A61C86E3@motorola.com> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] source'ing sdx & offer to help Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Since you're working on sdx please add a -suffix option that can be used > to add a user defined suffix (like '.kit') to the output file. On the subject of sdx, is it possible to call it from a tcl kit, by source'ing the kit file? I'd like to do wraps from my code without an exec (on windows doing the tclkitsh thing is annoying because of the terrible command shell). It looks to me like there is a lot of work to do. I would enjoy helping with making sdx source'able if it isn't already done. ro P.S. The future is bright when your way is lighted by a thousand starkits. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Sep 20 12:32:42 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8KHWfa11641; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:32:42 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id KAA16273; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:32:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id KAA24722; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:32:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRJGV; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:32:05 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8B5B95.6971A928@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:32:05 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <3977.10.3.36.17.1032400219.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <20020919152937.7700@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Major problem with HP Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Yesterday I tried out wikit on my HP and discovered there is a serious problem on HP's. The problem occured when I tried to save the results of a wikit edit. As soon as the edit button was pressed the application hung. By this I mean it no longer responded to input and no longer updated the window. I hunted down the wikit process with ps and tried to kill the process with a -9 and it would not die!!! The process was not looping but it would not go away. I logged out and back in which removed the process. I then went to the directory where I had run wikit and did an ls. % ls wikit.lock wikit.tkd I decide to do an ls -l to look at the size of the wikit.tkd, the ls command hung!! I killed the shell, opened a new shell and did an ls -l on the wikit.lock file it worked but when I tried it on the wikit.tkd file it hung. I killed the shell, opened a new shell and tried to remove the wikit.tkd file with an rm -f but the rm command hung. At this point I rebooted my system and went back to the same directory. % ls -l total 8 -rw-r----- 1 rna020 mask 5 Sep 20 09:33 wikit.lock -rw-r----- 1 rna020 mask 32768 Sep 20 09:35 wikit.tkd % rm wikit.lock wikit.tkd % ls -l total 0 I don't know enough about tclkit/vfs/metakit/wikit to point a finger but my guess is that the problem is being caused by metakit when it is trying to write to the wikit.tkd file. Because of the seriousness of this problem we should probably place a warning on the http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ web page until the problem is fixed. Regards, Tom Krehbiel From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 20 13:09:43 2002 Received: from [192.168.1.25] ([208.181.145.243]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8KI9ga12987 for ; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:09:42 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] Major problem with HP Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 09:09:47 -0700 Message-Id: <20020920160947.301@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D8B5B95.6971A928@motorola.com> References: <3D8B5B95.6971A928@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: [...] >I decide to do an ls -l to look at the size of the wikit.tkd, the ls >command hung!! I killed the shell, opened a new shell and did >an ls -l on the wikit.lock file it worked but when I tried it on the >wikit.tkd file it hung. I killed the shell, opened a new shell >and tried to remove the wikit.tkd file with an rm -f but the rm command >hung. At this point I rebooted my system and went back to >the same directory. First reaction: if a user app can hang an OS, then the OS has a problem. Second reaction: I have seen this happen on another system before. In that case, it pointed to a broken mmap implemementation. My suggestion would be to run the MetaKit regression test suite before doing anything else. It exercises quite a bit of the underlying core. -jcw From will@wjduquette.com Sat Sep 21 18:17:37 2002 Received: from falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net (falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8LNHba10354 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:17:37 -0500 Received: from pool0832.cvx11-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.178.191.67] helo=notebook.wjduquette.com) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17stVU-0003QE-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:17:48 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> X-Sender: wduquet1@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 16:10:54 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Will Duquette Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Starkit] First steps on Windows ME Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Howdy! Prompted by Steve's presentation at Tcl 2002, I've finally started working with Starkit. I've now got Notebook running as a Starpack, but there was a certain amount of pain involved. I'm going to go back and re-read the traffic on this list to see if I can find any answers, but I wanted to record what happened, as indicative of the newbie's experience. * The command line issue: given I've created notebook.exe, I should be able to open a notebook like this: notebook.exe mynotebook.nbk Instead, this attempts to execute mynotebook.nbk as a script, which both doesn't work and results in weird errors. notebook.exe -- mynotebook.nbk works, but it's obscure, and I gather it's unneeded except on Windows. * Given that I now have an .exe file which can run .nbk files, I should be able to make .nbk files double-clickable on Windows. I tried this, and stumbled into the backslash problem. This isn't specific to Starkit, I don't believe; I suspect I simply hadn't run into it before. When I double-click on C:\work\notes\notes.nbk, I have Windows run "notebook.exe -- C:\work\notes\notes.nbk". This command line comes into my app as % set argv {C:\work\notes\notes.nbk} I've managed to normalize this using [string map] to dispose of the braces and change the backslashes to forward slashes, but I suspect there's a better solution. Can anyone tell me what it is? * If I create notebook.kit, execute it using tclkit.exe (the compressed one from the Tcl 2002 CD), and then suspend my PC (Windows ME), then when I wake up the computer notebook.kit halts with a Windows error. Interestingly, this doesn't happen with notebook.exe. * At this point I have a "main.tcl" like the one described in Steve's paper: package require starkit starkit::startup package require app-notebook I notice from the other e-mails on this list that most people are doing something a lot more complicated. Why is this? Thanks for any help! Will From bryan@bitmover.com Sat Sep 21 19:30:10 2002 Received: from pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (pimout2-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8M0UAa11790 for ; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:30:10 -0500 Received: from bitmover.com (adsl-64-216-176-154.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [64.216.176.154]) by pimout2-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8M0ULI5580368; Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:30:21 -0400 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:30:20 -0500 Subject: Re: [Starkit] First steps on Windows ME Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: Will Duquette From: Bryan Oakley In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> Message-Id: <79FB6033-CDC2-11D6-BA38-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Saturday, September 21, 2002, at 06:10 PM, Will Duquette wrote: > specific to Starkit, I don't believe; I suspect I > simply hadn't run into it before. When I double-click on > C:\work\notes\notes.nbk, > I have Windows run "notebook.exe -- C:\work\notes\notes.nbk". This > command line > comes into my app as > > % set argv > {C:\work\notes\notes.nbk} This is what you should get, right? argv is an array. So all you really need is something like "set file [lindex $argv 0]", or "set file [file normalize [lindex $argv 0]]". From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 23 02:54:05 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8N7s4a12591 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 02:54:04 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] First steps on Windows ME Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:48:39 +0200 Message-Id: <20020923074839.25154@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Will Duquette wrote: >Howdy! Hi :) >* The command line issue: given I've created notebook.exe, I should be > able to open a notebook like this: > > notebook.exe mynotebook.nbk > > Instead, this attempts to execute mynotebook.nbk as a script, which > both doesn't work and results in weird errors. > > notebook.exe -- mynotebook.nbk > > works, but it's obscure, and I gather it's unneeded except on Windows. Yes. Bug. Needs fixing. Am aiming for the next release/build. > % set argv > {C:\work\notes\notes.nbk} Thanks, Bryan, for figuring this one out (i.e. lindex). >* If I create notebook.kit, execute it using tclkit.exe (the compressed one > from the Tcl 2002 CD), and then suspend my PC (Windows ME), then when I >wake up the > computer notebook.kit halts with a Windows error. Interestingly, this >doesn't happen > with notebook.exe. Ouch. That is a *strange* issue. Not sure where to look for a fix here. >* At this point I have a "main.tcl" like the one described in Steve's paper: > > package require starkit > starkit::startup > package require app-notebook > > I notice from the other e-mails on this list that most people are doing >something a > lot more complicated. Why is this? My hunch is: historical. The "package require starkit" approach is relatively new - and only as of a few months ago have things become so simple. TclKit will continue to support "package require scripdoc" for quite a while, but it's deprecated. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Mon Sep 23 06:03:10 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NB39a22056 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:03:09 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8NB3F1G003136 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8NB3Fn03165; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 07:03:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020923070315.AAB3035@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] Two starkit software distribution questions Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: As I am thinking over the implications of distributing software via starkits, there are some areas that have come to mind that I wanted to discuss. Let me preface these question/comments with the observation that I am aware that neither of these areas fall into starkit's target use. What I have been playing with is the idea of making starkit _the_ way that Tcl community software is distributed, as opposed to _one_ way. The question/comments that come to my so far are these: o for the distribution of one or more extensions in starkits, users will frequently desire at least a portion of the starkit 'burst' out into the flat environment. I don't want to imply here that I thought this a problem - it is an observation after talking this past week about the idea of distributing for instance an extension via starkit with the idea in my mind that it could server as an entire runtime format, without bursting/expansion. The area that seems likely to need expanded however are : documentation (most Windows/Unix users are going to want to access the documentation via the standard doc tools like tkman/man, WinHelp, etc.) include/link libraries (for applications or extensions with C API, access to the appropriate files by compilers is going to be necessary) demos/stand-alone executables (for extensions which also come with either tools or demonstrations) My point here is merely that while dropping a tclkit/starkit/starpack into a filesystem works in many cases, there are going to be exceptions and so developers need to consider these types of things to anticipate potential extra needs. o starkits are oriented towards tcl based applications, as well as tcl or binary extensions. However, it seems like there might be some place, during subsequent experience with starkits, for another kind of tcl related distribution - that of the binary application with Tcl embedded. I'm uncertain how this might work though - perhaps some sort of 'wrapper' tcl script which then invokes the binary application. If someone has experimented with this, I know I would appreciate hearing your experiences. o During the conference, while thinking about JC's paper on CriTcl, I was struck by the thought - I wonder how a comperable utility, based however on Java, rather than C, would work - that is to say, some kind of bundling of Tclblend code so that one would embed Java code into a Tcl script and get things to compile . Just a few random thoughts this morning as I struggle to get back up to speed at work... -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 23 10:37:37 2002 Received: from motgate4.mot.com (motgate4.mot.com [144.189.100.102]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NFbba05781 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:37:37 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate4.mot.com (motgate4 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA07651 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:37:50 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA27404 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:37:49 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRLC8; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:37:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8F354C.C75DFF@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:37:48 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] Two starkit software distribution questions References: <20020923070315.AAB3035@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry, I think these are all ideas that are worth more consideration. I personally think that the Tcl community need _one_ way to distribute software and I am also currently working with the starkit approach to see how far it can take me. Previously I have worked with ProTcl (very good but not very _open_) and MkTclapp. Another area that I find needs some thought and might benefit from group discussion is the development environment. I use CVS for storing all my source and I have 3 application (plus variations on those) that I am supporting. It doesn't make any sense to store copies of same extensions in the lib directory for each project so I wrote some code that extracts the appropriate extensions from my installation directory and puts them in the lib directory when I check out the module. I thing this process should be standardized and the extraction should probably be done by a tool (like sdx) and that the extensions should be pulled form an archive like Kitten. If we are to have a developers distribution archive (like Kitten) I think it will also be necessary to work out the details of the directory structure so that automated tools can be used to extract extensions. The issues you raise below are examples of the kinds of issues that will need to be addressed. Tom Krehbiel > As I am thinking over the implications of distributing software via starkits, > there are some areas that have come to mind that I wanted to discuss. > > Let me preface these question/comments with the observation that I am > aware that neither of these areas fall into starkit's target use. What > I have been playing with is the idea of making starkit _the_ way that Tcl > community software is distributed, as opposed to _one_ way. > > The question/comments that come to my so far are these: > > o for the distribution of one or more extensions in starkits, users will > frequently desire at least a portion of the starkit 'burst' out into the > flat environment. I don't want to imply here that I thought this a problem - > it is an observation after talking this past week about the idea of distributing > for instance an extension via starkit with the idea in my mind that it could > server as an entire runtime format, without bursting/expansion. The > area that seems likely to need expanded however are : > > documentation (most Windows/Unix users are going to want to access > the documentation via the standard doc tools like tkman/man, > WinHelp, etc.) > > include/link libraries (for applications or extensions with C API, > access to the appropriate files by compilers is going to be > necessary) > > demos/stand-alone executables (for extensions which also come with > either tools or demonstrations) > > My point here is merely that while dropping a tclkit/starkit/starpack into > a filesystem works in many cases, there are going to be exceptions and so > developers need to consider these types of things to anticipate potential > extra needs. > > o starkits are oriented towards tcl based applications, as well as tcl or > binary extensions. However, it seems like there might be some place, during > subsequent experience with starkits, for another kind of tcl related > distribution - that of the binary application with Tcl embedded. I'm uncertain > how this might work though - perhaps some sort of 'wrapper' tcl script > which then invokes the binary application. If someone has experimented > with this, I know I would appreciate hearing your experiences. > > o During the conference, while thinking about JC's paper on CriTcl, I > was struck by the thought - I wonder how a comperable utility, based however > on Java, rather than C, would work - that is to say, some kind of bundling > of Tclblend code so that one would embed Java code into a Tcl script and > get things to compile . From lvirden@cas.org Mon Sep 23 13:13:28 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NIDSa16132 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:13:28 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8NIDY1G024818 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8NIDYI09224; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:13:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:13:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020923141333.AAB9198@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: During the Tcl conference, one of the discussions that was held was what should tclkit do when invoked as: $ tclkit (or whatever this is going to look like on Windows/MacOS/etc...) Currently, one gets a Tcl prompt. Alternatives that have been suggested include: o A development environment of some sort - tkcon or something o A wiki help system for Tclkit o A USAGE type statement What other alternatives should be considered? Also, should tclkit include some sort of "report your version" command line argument so that when trying to support tclkit and various starkits or starpacks, one has a chance of asking "okay, what version of the tclkit and starkit are you using"? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From bryan@bitmover.com Mon Sep 23 13:21:35 2002 Received: from pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (pimout4-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NILZa16794 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:21:35 -0500 Received: from bitmover.com (adsl-64-216-176-154.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [64.216.176.154]) by pimout4-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8NILi0N287848; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:21:44 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:21:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: "Larry W. Virden" From: Bryan Oakley In-Reply-To: <20020923141333.AAB9198@cas.org> Message-Id: <500A4EEC-CF21-11D6-BCEB-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 01:13 PM, Larry W. Virden wrote: > During the Tcl conference, one of the discussions that was held was > what should tclkit do when invoked as: > > $ tclkit > > > (or whatever this is going to look like on Windows/MacOS/etc...) > > Currently, one gets a Tcl prompt. Alternatives that have been > suggested > include: > > o A development environment of some sort - tkcon or something > o A wiki help system for Tclkit > o A USAGE type statement > > What other alternatives should be considered? Another option (not sure if I advocate it, though) is a file manager that lets you manage the files inside the tclkit. If it's not the default behavior, it'd be nice if it was available via an option (eg: tclkit --browse) --bryan From andreask@ActiveState.com Mon Sep 23 13:28:33 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NISVa17404 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:28:31 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NISbW31690; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:28:37 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8NISb508904; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:28:37 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Bryan Oakley" , "Larry W. Virden" Cc: Subject: RE: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 11:28:37 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <500A4EEC-CF21-11D6-BCEB-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Bryan Oakley > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:22 AM > To: Larry W. Virden > Cc: starkit@equi4.com > Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? > > > > On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 01:13 PM, Larry W. Virden wrote: > > > During the Tcl conference, one of the discussions that was held was > > what should tclkit do when invoked as: > > > > $ tclkit > > > > > > (or whatever this is going to look like on Windows/MacOS/etc...) > > > > Currently, one gets a Tcl prompt. Alternatives that have been > > suggested > > include: > > > > o A development environment of some sort - tkcon or something > > o A wiki help system for Tclkit > > o A USAGE type statement > > > > What other alternatives should be considered? > > Another option (not sure if I advocate it, though) is a file manager > that lets you manage the files inside the tclkit. If it's not the > default behavior, it'd be nice if it was available via an option (eg: > tclkit --browse) Actually this can/should be had via SDX I believe. -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com From bryan@bitmover.com Mon Sep 23 13:40:47 2002 Received: from pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (pimout1-ext.prodigy.net [207.115.63.77]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NIeka18338 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:40:46 -0500 Received: from bitmover.com (adsl-64-216-176-154.dsl.tulsok.swbell.net [64.216.176.154]) by pimout1-ext.prodigy.net (8.12.3 da nor stuldap/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g8NIexBd592200 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:40:59 -0400 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:40:59 -0500 Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Bryan Oakley To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <00C9A128-CF24-11D6-BCEB-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 01:28 PM, Andreas Kupries wrote: >> Another option (not sure if I advocate it, though) is a file manager >> that lets you manage the files inside the tclkit. If it's not the >> default behavior, it'd be nice if it was available via an option (eg: >> tclkit --browse) > > Actually this can/should be had via SDX I believe. Right, but it's very cumbersome, IMHO. Especially for people who live in a windows or mac world. What I'm thinking of is a browser (GUI) that lets you see the internal file structure and make it easy to add/remove files via button clicks. From jgodfrey@optinest.com Mon Sep 23 13:52:38 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NIqba19343 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:52:37 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8NIpLI15814; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:51:30 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Rohan Pall" , Subject: RE: [Starkit] sdx help Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:56:46 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3513.10.3.36.17.1032472969.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Rohan Pall > And Steve, your paper rocked! Thanks for uploading it ;) Is Steve's paper publicly available? If so, where? Thanks, Jeff From jcw@equi4.com Mon Sep 23 14:05:52 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NJ5oa20517 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:05:50 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Starkit Subject: RE: [Starkit] sdx help Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:03:47 +0200 Message-Id: <20020923190347.8497@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: >Is Steve's paper publicly available? If so, where? It'll probably soon be listed on the ActiveState site, along with other papers. I've added a link to Steve's paper on the http://www.equi4.com/ starkit/ page. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 23 16:02:40 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NL2da27471 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 16:02:39 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id OAA21058 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:02:52 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id OAA14109 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:00:04 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRMGF; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:02:06 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8F814D.1D278E30@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:02:05 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andreas Kupries CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 01:13 PM, Larry W. Virden wrote: > > > > > During the Tcl conference, one of the discussions that was held was > > > what should tclkit do when invoked as: > > > > > > $ tclkit > > > > > > > > > (or whatever this is going to look like on Windows/MacOS/etc...) > > > > > > Currently, one gets a Tcl prompt. Alternatives that have been > > > suggested > > > include: > > > > > > o A development environment of some sort - tkcon or something > > > o A wiki help system for Tclkit > > > o A USAGE type statement > > > > > > What other alternatives should be considered? > > > > Another option (not sure if I advocate it, though) is a file manager > > that lets you manage the files inside the tclkit. If it's not the > > default behavior, it'd be nice if it was available via an option (eg: > > tclkit --browse) > > Actually this can/should be had via SDX I believe. > > -- > Andreas Kupries I have been toying with the idea of creating a "Tcl Developers Tool Bar" (TDTB) to address two issues. First two improve the learning curve for new tcl developers and second to help with the Windows/MacOS/etc... interface problems. The TDTB would be a button box that contained tool buttons. Each tool in the tool box would provide a gui for the underlying tool along with access to a wikit help page for the tool. The TDTB would be a good place to access the SDX functionality. I'm not sure what is meant by "A wiki help system for Tclkit". If this means including wikit as part of tclkit then I could probably support it, but if this means to include help on tclkit through a wikit as part of tclkit then I would find that very dangerous and could not support it. My concern here would be that an application that is running in the background might try to provide help on an error and through a gui rather than through stdout. Tom K. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 23 17:24:53 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8NMOqa31854 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:24:52 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id PAA23956 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:25:30 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id PAA26781 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:25:05 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRM30; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:24:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3D8F9493.40256510@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:24:19 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <20020923141333.AAB9198@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden" wrote: > Also, should tclkit include some sort of "report your version" command > line argument so that when trying to support tclkit and various starkits > or starpacks, one has a chance of asking "okay, what version of the > tclkit and starkit are you using"? Yes, I think it should. Should there also be a way to determine the versions of the tclkit components at runtime? For instance should it be possible to determine the MetaKit version? Tom K. From will@wjduquette.com Mon Sep 23 22:43:11 2002 Received: from snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8O3hBa08243 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:43:11 -0500 Received: from pool0489.cvx38-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.31.234] helo=notebook.wjduquette.com) by snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17tgbK-0005W8-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:43:24 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020923165956.00a02180@pop.earthlink.net> X-Sender: wduquet1@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:03:29 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Will Duquette Subject: Re: [Starkit] First steps on Windows ME In-Reply-To: <20020923074839.25154@triqs.com> References: <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> <5.1.1.6.0.20020921155852.009fb820@pop.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 09:48 AM 9/23/2002 +0200, JCW wrote: > > % set argv > > {C:\work\notes\notes.nbk} > >Thanks, Bryan, for figuring this one out (i.e. lindex). Actually, it was "file normalize" that I was needing. I use Cygwin, and so I always use Unix file naming conventions; I'd never run into the need for "file normalize" before. In other words, the braces in the above argv weren't list braces; if I'd passed C:\work\notes\notes.nbk foo to the program I'd have seen this: %set argv {C:\work\notes\notes.nbk} foo % Anyway, I've got it now. >My hunch is: historical. The "package require starkit" approach is >relatively new - and only as of a few months ago have things become so >simple. TclKit will continue to support "package require scripdoc" for >quite a while, but it's deprecated. Excellent! Thanks! Will From nicolasb@maich.gr Tue Sep 24 02:20:53 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8O7Kpa13746 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 02:20:52 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Tue Sep 24 10:50:27 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D901387.1050202@maich.gr> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:25:59 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Larry W. Virden" CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <20020923141333.AAB9198@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > During the Tcl conference, one of the discussions that was held was > what should tclkit do when invoked as: > > $ tclkit > > > (or whatever this is going to look like on Windows/MacOS/etc...) > > Currently, one gets a Tcl prompt. Alternatives that have been suggested > include: > > o A development environment of some sort - tkcon or something > o A wiki help system for Tclkit > o A USAGE type statement > Hi, I think the above are all valuable and could be additions to tkcon. So, tclkit could start as usual, and the developer could do a package req Tkcon and get the above functionality.... OTOH, wiki help should probably be available at the initial (current tclkit) level for novices... > What other alternatives should be considered? > > Also, should tclkit include some sort of "report your version" command > line argument so that when trying to support tclkit and various starkits > or starpacks, one has a chance of asking "okay, what version of the > tclkit and starkit are you using"? I am not clear here;-( regards, nicolas boretos From nicolasb@maich.gr Tue Sep 24 02:23:01 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8O7N0a13859 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 02:23:00 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Tue Sep 24 10:52:37 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D901409.2000304@maich.gr> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:28:09 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bryan Oakley CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <00C9A128-CF24-11D6-BCEB-000393A78FA0@bitmover.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryan Oakley wrote: > > On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 01:28 PM, Andreas Kupries wrote: > >>> Another option (not sure if I advocate it, though) is a file manager >>> that lets you manage the files inside the tclkit. If it's not the >>> default behavior, it'd be nice if it was available via an option (eg: >>> tclkit --browse) >> >> >> Actually this can/should be had via SDX I believe. > > > Right, but it's very cumbersome, IMHO. Especially for people who live in > a windows or mac world. What I'm thinking of is a browser (GUI) that > lets you see the internal file structure and make it easy to add/remove > files via button clicks. > This sounds totally cool.... regards, nicolas boretos > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > > . > From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 24 02:43:40 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8O7hca14527 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 02:43:39 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:43:43 +0200 Message-Id: <20020924074343.10242@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D901409.2000304@maich.gr> References: <3D901409.2000304@maich.gr> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Nicolas Boretos wrote: [Bryan Oakley] >> What I'm thinking of is a browser (GUI) that >> lets you see the internal file structure and make it easy to add/remove >> files via button clicks. >> >This sounds totally cool.... One way to go is to see whether TkDesk could be turned into a (pretty big) starkit. It would bring this option in for free via VFS, and much more. There's a tree demo in Bwidgets which shows disk contents, this would be simple to turn into a starkit which browses through VFS (also ZIP and FTP, btw). In fact, Tcl 8.4 based development tools all can benefit from being transparent in their treatment of starkits by VFS-mounting them. AlphaTk by Vince Darley already does, Source Navigator and "ML" (in sdarchive) could as well, maybe. Some work was done a while back to turn xotcl and an IDE for it into a starkit, I can try to find the email I got if anyone is interested. Closer to home, would be Tcl Dev Kit and even Komodo... The point is that with 8.4 being final, VFS provides transparent access to any Tcl-based app. Well, it is limited to TclKit for now, but getting TclVFS into shape to work out of the box with any Tcl setup is a top priority for me. The limiting issues are in fact not TclVFS but things like zlib and memchan/rechan. -jcw From nicolasb@maich.gr Tue Sep 24 04:06:19 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8O96Ha17678 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 04:06:18 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Tue Sep 24 12:35:54 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D902C3D.4000406@maich.gr> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:11:25 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <3D901409.2000304@maich.gr> <20020924074343.10242@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, Getting excited 'bout vfs (again) and tried the samples on the wiki vfs::urltype::Mount http set fd [open http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl] set contents [read $fd] ; close $fd Got an error pop-up "illegal seek mode specified" This is using the current vfs/memchan download (not cvs) from sourceforge. IIRC, the above tidbit worked (on XP both times) regards, nicolas boretos > > The point is that with 8.4 being final, VFS provides transparent access > to any Tcl-based app. Well, it is limited to TclKit for now, but getting > TclVFS into shape to work out of the box with any Tcl setup is a top > priority for me. The limiting issues are in fact not TclVFS but things > like zlib and memchan/rechan. > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > > . > From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 24 07:14:33 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OCEXa27598 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:14:33 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8OCEe1G019118 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8OCEeN05571; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:14:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:14:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020924081440.AAB5560@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:11:25 +0300 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: Nicolas Boretos > vfs::urltype::Mount http > set fd [open http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl] > set contents [read $fd] ; close $fd >Got an error pop-up > >"illegal seek mode specified" Shoot - you got farther than I did! $ tclsh8.4 % package require vfs 1.0 % vfs::urltype::Mount http invalid command name "vfs::urltype::Mount" % -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 24 07:15:40 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OCFda27694 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:15:40 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8OCFk1G019345 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8OCFla05596; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:15:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:15:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020924081546.AAB5574@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: Your message of Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:11:25 +0300 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just in case people say "oh, you have tclvfs installed wrong": $ tclkit % package require vfs 1.0 % vfs::urltype::Mount http invalid command name "vfs::urltype::Mount" % -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From Steve.Cassidy@mq.edu.au Tue Sep 24 07:32:27 2002 Received: from sputnik (c19216.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [210.49.146.52]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OCWQa28821 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 07:32:27 -0500 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=steve) by sputnik with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 17tor8-0003ET-00 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:31:58 +1000 Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? From: Steve Cassidy To: starkit@equi4.com In-Reply-To: <20020924081440.AAB5560@cas.org> References: <20020924081440.AAB5560@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 24 Sep 2002 22:31:57 +1000 Message-Id: <1032870718.11839.5.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 22:14, Larry W. Virden wrote: > > From: Nicolas Boretos > > > vfs::urltype::Mount http > > set fd [open http://sourceforge.net/projects/tcl] > > set contents [read $fd] ; close $fd > >Got an error pop-up > > > >"illegal seek mode specified" > > Shoot - you got farther than I did! The problem is that the tcl code doesn't have package provides and isn't installed when you say make install. I've submitted a patch to the tclvfs project on sf.net to fix this (at least partially). My fixed version can do: sputnik > tclsh8.4 % package require vfs 1.0 % package require vfslib 1.3 % package require vfs.http 1.0 % package require vfs.urltype 1.0 % vfs::urltype::Mount http Mounted at "http://" % set fd [open http://localhost/] mem0 % set contents [read $fd]; close $fd ...and get the appropriate html content. You can get a version for linux at least on http://www.ics.mq.edu.au/~cassidy/cgi-bin/installer Steve From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Sep 24 08:05:27 2002 Received: from smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.14]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OD5Qa31087 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:05:27 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost4.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17tpNd-000Hxm-00; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:05:33 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924140327.026cbdc0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:05:31 +0100 To: Steve Cassidy , starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <1032870718.11839.5.camel@sputnik> References: <20020924081440.AAB5560@cas.org> <20020924081440.AAB5560@cas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 10:31 PM 9/24/2002 +1000, Steve Cassidy wrote: >sputnik > tclsh8.4 >% package require vfs >1.0 >% package require vfslib >1.3 >% package require vfs.http >1.0 >% package require vfs.urltype >1.0 >% vfs::urltype::Mount http >Mounted at "http://" Is this what everyone wants (I'm completely open-minded here). The alternative is just that 'package require vfs' places the relevant directory on the auto_path so that 'vfs::urltype::Mount http' works directly. One difference between these two approaches, of course, is that 'package require vfs.xxx' should of course ensure that all required other packages are loaded (e.g. memchan or equivalent, trf, etc). happy to put whatever everyone wants in tclvfs... Vince. From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 24 08:05:58 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OD5wa31135 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:05:58 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8OD641G010172 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8OD64p07756; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:06:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:06:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <1032870718.11839.5.camel@sputnik> of 24 Sep 2002 22:31:57 +1000 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: In tclkit, apparently vfs.http and vfs.urltype packages can't be found either. Looks like some work is needed here. Be aware also that Friday someone mentioned that Tcl/Tk 8.4.1 is coming within a week or two - perhaps when those bugs are fixed we can get the fixed tclvfs in as well? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From Steve.Cassidy@mq.edu.au Tue Sep 24 08:20:12 2002 Received: from sputnik (c19216.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [210.49.146.52]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ODKBa32106 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:20:11 -0500 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=steve) by sputnik with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 17tpbH-0003FK-00; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:19:39 +1000 Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? From: Steve Cassidy To: "Larry W. Virden" Cc: starkit@equi4.com In-Reply-To: <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> References: <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 24 Sep 2002 23:19:38 +1000 Message-Id: <1032873579.11839.16.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 23:06, Larry W. Virden wrote: > > In tclkit, apparently vfs.http and vfs.urltype packages can't be found either. > I made up these names since these files didn't have any (or not reliably, I can't recall). I wasn't completely thorough in putting in package require's where needed obviously. In the current cvs I see: mk4vfs.tcl:package provide mk4vfs 1.5 pkgIndex.tcl:if {[package provide Tcl] < 8.4} { starkit.tcl:package provide starkit 1.0 vfslib.tcl:package provide vfslib 1.3 zipvfs.tcl:package provide zipvfs 1.0 I note that tclkit provides zipvfs, it would be good to have a standard way of naming these if they're to be separate packages, eg vfs::zip, vfs::mk4, vfs::http. The alternative is to have 'package require vfs' load the whole lot but the other approach is more flexible in terms of adding new fs types in the future. Steve From nicolasb@maich.gr Tue Sep 24 08:27:58 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8ODRva32585 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:27:57 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Tue Sep 24 16:57:34 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3D906991.5020803@maich.gr> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:33:05 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Cassidy CC: "Larry W. Virden" , starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> <1032873579.11839.16.camel@sputnik> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Cassidy wrote: > On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 23:06, Larry W. Virden wrote: > >>In tclkit, apparently vfs.http and vfs.urltype packages can't be found either. >> > > > I made up these names since these files didn't have any (or not > reliably, I can't recall). I wasn't completely thorough in putting in > package require's where needed obviously. > > In the current cvs I see: > > mk4vfs.tcl:package provide mk4vfs 1.5 > pkgIndex.tcl:if {[package provide Tcl] < 8.4} { > starkit.tcl:package provide starkit 1.0 > vfslib.tcl:package provide vfslib 1.3 > zipvfs.tcl:package provide zipvfs 1.0 > I think this is a good start as one could call specifically the functionality required > I note that tclkit provides zipvfs, it would be good to have a standard > way of naming these if they're to be separate packages, eg vfs::zip, > vfs::mk4, vfs::http. The alternative is to have 'package require vfs' > load the whole lot but the other approach is more flexible in terms of > adding new fs types in the future. > > Steve > > > > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > > . > From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Sep 24 08:28:52 2002 Received: from smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.12]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ODSpa32679 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:28:52 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17tpkO-0001DU-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:29:04 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924142723.026ec388@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:29:03 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <1032873579.11839.16.camel@sputnik> References: <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> <20020924090604.AAB7721@cas.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 11:19 PM 9/24/2002 +1000, Steve Cassidy wrote: >I note that tclkit provides zipvfs, it would be good to have a standard >way of naming these if they're to be separate packages, eg vfs::zip, >vfs::mk4, vfs::http. The alternative is to have 'package require vfs' >load the whole lot but the other approach is more flexible in terms of >adding new fs types in the future. Given the actual code is standardized in the namespaces vfs::zip vfs::http vfs::ftp etc, why don't we use that as the package names? If anyone wishes to email me a replacement library directory (easier than a patch on my end, for this), I'll check in the changes. cheers, Vince. From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Sep 24 09:25:19 2002 Received: from smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.12]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OEPIa04089 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:25:18 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost2.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17tqcu-0006zS-00; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:24 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:23 +0100 To: "Larry W. Virden" From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Cc: starkit@equi4.com In-Reply-To: <20020924101854.AAB8843@cas.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924142723.026ec388@mail.wolfbusiness.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm in two minds myself... On the one-hand it would be good just to have 'package require vfs' do everything, but on the other hand, that might not work, because when you try to use 'vfs::ftp' you find the 'ftp' package isn't available, and 'vfs::ftp::Mount' fails, etc. I would lean towards the following: 'package require vfs' isn't used by the end-user very much. Instead the end-user does 'package require vfs::foo' to use the 'foo' vfs. This automatically does a package require vfs behind the scenes (and a 'package require' for whatever other packages 'foo' needs). That way the user only needs one package require for each filesystem type they want to use, and new filesystem types (not distributed with tclvfs) can behave identically to the distributed ones. Vince. At 10:18 AM 9/24/2002 -0400, you wrote: >As for seperate package requires, for _me_, personally, I don't mind >seeing package require vfs creating all the commands, but if >seperate packages is something people want, I would just like to see >things simplified so that only one package require is necessary rather >than 3 or 4 package requires to get the package to work. From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 24 09:29:49 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OETma04386 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:29:49 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8OETt1G012775 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8OETtB09115; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:29:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020924102955.AAB9106@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> of Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:23 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Vince, that probably is best. However, will there be reference pages for each of the commands, so that one can do a "man vfs::http" for instance and get the appropriate docs? -- Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/ Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 24 09:59:13 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OExCa06133 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:59:12 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:59:07 +0200 Message-Id: <20020924145907.15115@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Vince Darley wrote: >I'm in two minds myself... On the one-hand it would be good just to have >'package require vfs' do everything, but on the other hand, that might not >work, because when you try to use 'vfs::ftp' you find the 'ftp' package >isn't available, and 'vfs::ftp::Mount' fails, etc. (Could be solved with "vfs::mount ftp a.b.c/d/e/f haha", see below) >I would lean towards the following: > >'package require vfs' isn't used by the end-user very much. Instead the >end-user does 'package require vfs::foo' to use the 'foo' vfs. This >automatically does a package require vfs behind the scenes (and a 'package >require' for whatever other packages 'foo' needs). > >That way the user only needs one package require for each filesystem type >they want to use, and new filesystem types (not distributed with tclvfs) >can behave identically to the distributed ones. Is there a precedent for the abc::def package naming scheme? If not, I'd be more inclined to vote for something such as "package require vfs.ftp". As for what to require: there may be some more complexity ahead of us. As a developer, it might be useful to have an "all" version, and in fact stay away from explicitly requiring just sub-packages, perhaps: package require vfs vfs::schemes auto all or vfs::schemes auto {http ftp} Which would in turn generate the necessary require's. There may be some risk in exposing everything-and-the-kitchen-sink, given that schemes become recognized by the [open] command in any spot (and interp?). There seem to be two basic VFS mechanisms: schemes ("http://...", etc) and mount points. I don't fully understand the issues yet. The mount mechanism in turn has a bit of cruft which might be cleaned up before things become too widespread: - case mixing: lower "vfs", lower scheme name, then "Mount" :( - the fact that a gets mounted on b, with a often the same as b Would it be an idea to move towards a slightly different naming structure? Perhaps: vfs::mount ftp a.b.c/d/e/f haha vfs::mount zip abc.zip And on the closing down side: vfs::unmount haha vfs::unmount abc.zip Perhaps even use the above as a model for "auto-scheme support": vfs::mount ftp://a.b.c/d/e/f haha vfs::mount zip:abc.zip (The latter is not "zip://...", because abc.zip refers to current "."?) Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the "vfs::type" namespaces reserved for implementations, i.e. making them internal details as far as vfs usage is concerned. There are no doubt many other hairy details to consider. What about mounting a zip residing on a remote FTP server? Is that supported? Probably not now, but it could be - and so could even much further reaching plan9-like mechanisms, such as mounting a remote process, or even inspecting its Tcl var/proc namespaces. It may not happen soon, but the path we embark on now needs to try to keep options open as much as possible, IMO. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Tue Sep 24 10:03:21 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OF3Ka06451 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:03:20 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8OF3R1G023010 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8OF3R309882; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:03:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020924110327.AAB9872@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <20020924145907.15115@triqs.com> of Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:59:07 +0200 To: Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: What about the possibility of an 'unknown' type setup - so that once someone did a package require vfs, attempts to access specific vfs features would either be in memory, or be autoloaded, unless literally not on the system... -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From vince.darley@eurobios.com Tue Sep 24 10:05:34 2002 Received: from smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net (smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net [212.135.6.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OF5Xa06651 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:05:33 -0500 Received: from [212.134.222.3] (helo=trapper.eurobios.com) by smarthost1.mail.uk.easynet.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17trFw-0008Z3-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:05:44 +0100 Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924155233.026d7d38@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:05:43 +0100 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Vince Darley Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? In-Reply-To: <20020924102955.AAB9106@cas.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 10:29 AM 9/24/2002 -0400, Larry W. Virden wrote: >Vince, that probably is best. However, will there be reference pages >for each of the commands, so that one can do a "man vfs::http" for >instance and get the appropriate docs? If someone writes them, they'll be there, but otherwise they won't... I know this isn't a great answer, but that's the way it is... At this point I should say: I did write tclvfs, but I don't consider myself to be its long-term maintainer. I've pushed it out into the open world of Tcl... It emerged out of a need to make tclkit and the new vfs support in Tcl8.4 meet somewhere. That meeting point was constrained by the historical interfaces of tclkit, and the old 'vfs in tcl' code written by numerous others. This means it isn't necessarily the best design in the world, but neither is it awful, and it does work (subject to the various bugs/issues which we're discussing on this list, it seems). On top of that, there are quite a few others who have a lot more practical experience with using vfs's than I do, so that's another reason for me just to be a happy bystander here. What this does mean is that all of these issues we are discussing are 100% open to everyone to contribute to (whether by word or code), and I am certainly not going to veto or otherwise get in the way. Hopefully we'll come to some good answers and some good code which everyone can use. hope that clarifies my position, Vince. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Tue Sep 24 10:29:28 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OFTSa08636 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 10:29:28 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA02280 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:29:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA11034 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:29:42 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRNMK; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:29:41 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9084E5.13B2A6F2@motorola.com> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 08:29:41 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? References: <5.1.1.5.0.20020924152123.0270d6b0@mail.wolfbusiness.com> <20020924145907.15115@triqs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >I'm in two minds myself... On the one-hand it would be good just to have >'package require vfs' do everything, but on the other hand, that might not >work, because when you try to use 'vfs::ftp' you find the 'ftp' package >isn't available, and 'vfs::ftp::Mount' fails, etc. FWIW, The tcllib index provides for both a "package ifneeded tcllib" that loads everything and individual "package ifneeded ..." for each package. However, the loading of package dependencies is not support, it is left as a surprise for the developer. Tom K. From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 24 12:45:16 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OHjEa19304; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:45:14 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: , "Michael Jacobson" Cc: "Jeff Hobbs" , "Starkit mailing list" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:45:18 +0200 Message-Id: <20020924174518.14430@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D90A1D4.4000109@mail.northgrum.com> References: <3D90A1D4.4000109@mail.northgrum.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael Jacobson wrote: (Also CC'd to the Starkit mailing list) >Hello everyone...I have a quick question about using a dll in a Starkit >that reads a file in the Starkit. > >Does using winico in a Starkit work? I was trying to wrap a application >that used winico and I found that winico would not load a icon inside >the Starkit. Is this a known issue? (I know that that 8.4 has icon >support but this was for placing a icon in the windows tool tray ~ which >is only in winico does). > >I am including a simple application, tknotepad.kit, to show this >problem. At the console that is displayed try the following (or >uncomment the last 2 lines in the tknotepad.tcl file). > >(tknotepad.kit) 1 % glob "[file join $starkit_top icons]/*.*" >C:/np2/tknotepad.kit/icons/notepad.ico >(tknotepad.kit) 2 % file exist [file join $starkit_top icons notepad.ico] >1 >(tknotepad.kit) 3 % set ico [winico createfrom [file join $starkit_top >icons notepad.ico]] >Error Opening File for Readingreading of >C:/np2/tknotepad.kit/icons/notepad.ico failed! > >Any ideas? > >Michael Jacobson That's right, winico uses read() system calls which are not aware of the VFS environment which Tcl scripts see. I once hacked up a winico to use equivalent Tcl channel calls, to support winico in starkits (scripted docs then), but now that more icon support is in std Tk, I no longer use it. >P.S. Nice presentation on Tclkit/Starkit/Starpack at Tcl2k2 (I checked >out your slides) also Steve's paper was very good (I have been send it >around to our Tcl developers). Great - spread the word :) -jcw From david@davudsplace.net Tue Sep 24 15:31:50 2002 Received: from restofus (dsl093-039-044.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.39.44]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OKVna01808 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:31:50 -0500 Received: from lagniappe.davudsplace.net (lagniappe [192.168.1.66]) by restofus (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A7501F64F for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagniappe.davudsplace.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 30B94C045; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:31:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15760.52157.972187.746468@davudsplace.net> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:31:57 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Reply-To: david@davudsplace.net From: david@davudsplace.net (david may) Subject: [Starkit] loading extensions into Tclkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have had this problem with a number of extensions I have created. They will load and work fine with tclsh. But I get a segv when I try and load them into a tclkit. Today I tried critcl.kit from steve's site and ther same problem occurs. Seems if there is a reference to an external .so, in this case /usr/lib/libpq.so, the critcl code crashes tclkit. But I can load .so that critcl compiles into tclsh8.4 and it runs flawlessly. This is some kind of ld.so magic I suppose. I have tried a bunch of compile flags and librariy flags, including -lpq but no joy.. can any one enlighten me? thanks, davud david@davudsplace.net From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 24 16:02:42 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OL2ca04023 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:02:38 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: Re: [Starkit] loading extensions into Tclkit Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:02:39 +0200 Message-Id: <20020924210239.22438@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <15760.52157.972187.746468@davudsplace.net> References: <15760.52157.972187.746468@davudsplace.net> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: david may wrote: >I have had this problem with a number of extensions I have >created. They will load and work fine with tclsh. But >I get a segv when I try and load them into a tclkit. > >Today I tried critcl.kit from steve's site and ther same >problem occurs. Seems if there is a reference to an external >.so, in this case /usr/lib/libpq.so, the critcl code crashes tclkit. >But I can load .so that critcl compiles into tclsh8.4 and >it runs flawlessly. This is some kind of ld.so magic I suppose. > >I have tried a bunch of compile flags and librariy flags, >including -lpq but no joy.. can any one enlighten me? The usual culprit is not compiling the .so(s) with stubs enabled. There may be a problem also when compiling with 8.4a* tcl headers. Reason: the .so will load against the installed tcl/tk shared libs, which is wrong when run under tclkit (or any other version of tcl than is installed). When used against the installed tclsh, things work because calls can be resolved without stubs. If "load blah.so" fails, then please check the output of "ldd blah.so" or "nm -g blah.so". If there is a reference to libtcl*.so in there (ldd), or an undefined Tcl_* routine (nm), then the extension was not properly built with stubs. What version do you have of tclsh8.4 (i.e. "info patchlevel")? Can you successfully run a basic critcl example? -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Tue Sep 24 16:04:59 2002 Received: from [10.0.1.193] (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OL4wa04197 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:04:59 -0500 From: "Jean-Claude Wippler" To: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:05:03 +0200 Message-Id: <20020924210503.30023@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <3D9084E5.13B2A6F2@motorola.com> References: <3D9084E5.13B2A6F2@motorola.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: >The tcllib index provides for both a "package ifneeded tcllib" that loads >everything and individual "package ifneeded ..." for each >package. However, the loading of package dependencies is not support, it >is left as a surprise for the developer. As I understand it, tcllib's top level package is deprecated. The idea is to require the modules you want to use, and they will require the underlying packages they in turn need. Come to think of it, this matches what Vince Darley has suggested for vfs. -jcw From dgporter@erols.com Tue Sep 24 16:33:29 2002 Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8OLXSa05992; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:33:29 -0500 Received: from 66-44-2-230.s738.apx1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.2.230] helo=there) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.35 #7) id 17txJN-0000jA-00; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:33:42 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Don Porter Reply-To: dgporter@erols.com To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" , "Starkit mailing list" Subject: Re: [Starkit] what should tclkit's default action be? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:28:10 -0400 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] References: <3D9084E5.13B2A6F2@motorola.com> <20020924210503.30023@triqs.com> In-Reply-To: <20020924210503.30023@triqs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday 24 September 2002 17:05, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > As I understand it, tcllib's top level package is deprecated. The > idea is to require the modules you want to use, and they will require > the underlying packages they in turn need. That's the only sane way to do modular work. As the author of some bit of software, you are expected to know what commands you are using. If some of those are coming from another package, it's your job to gain access to that package ([package require]). It's not your job to know the internals of that package in order to set things up for it. If each module takes care of it's own direct requirements, then the system will hold together fine, and concerns will be properly separated, and module development can independently proceed. (To be precise, I'm talking about runtime responsibility within the code itself. Packaging/deployment is another matter. A packager of a complete system (starkit or otherwise) does need to see that all the pieces are included.) This ain't C++. -- | Don Porter dgporter@erols.com | | "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!" | | -- Adam West as BATMAN | |______________________________________________________________________| From steve@digital-smarties.com Tue Sep 24 18:06:37 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8ON6aa10668 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:06:37 -0500 Received: (qmail 15610 invoked by uid 8); 24 Sep 2002 23:06:49 -0000 Received: from pc-00060 (192.168.1.60, claiming to be "[192.168.1.60]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdLegPjb; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:06:45 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:06:43 +0800 Message-Id: <20020924230643.18388@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <20020924174518.14430@triqs.com> References: <20020924174518.14430@triqs.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael Jacobson wrote: >>Does using winico in a Starkit work? I was trying to wrap a application >>that used winico and I found that winico would not load a icon inside >>the Starkit. Is this a known issue? Jean-Claude Wippler replied: >That's right, winico uses read() system calls which are not aware of the >VFS environment which Tcl scripts see. I once hacked up a winico to use >equivalent Tcl channel calls, to support winico in starkits (scripted >docs then), but now that more icon support is in std Tk, I no longer use it. On occasion I use winico for system tray stuff, but I just copy the icon files into a temporary file in the native filesystem before pointing winico at them. The name of the temporary directory/folder used by VFS used to be available, but I'm not sure if this is still the case. I'll have to check. If it isn't, then maybe tclvfs should expose it. Steve From gay@sfu.ca Tue Sep 24 18:21:16 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ONLGa11737 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:21:16 -0500 Received: from ian.chem.sfu.ca (ian.chem.sfu.ca [142.58.209.2]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.5/8.12.5/SFU-5.0H) with SMTP id g8ONLINt027489; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:21:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.20020924155415.0fbfc1fe@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Sender: gay@mailserver.sfu.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:54:15 To: "Steve Landers" , "Starkit mailing list" From: Ian Gay Subject: Re: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit In-Reply-To: <20020924230643.18388@mail.digital-smarties.com> References: <20020924174518.14430@triqs.com> <20020924174518.14430@triqs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 07:06 25/09/02 +0800, Steve Landers wrote: >Michael Jacobson wrote: > >>>Does using winico in a Starkit work? I was trying to wrap a application >>>that used winico and I found that winico would not load a icon inside >>>the Starkit. Is this a known issue? > >Jean-Claude Wippler replied: > >>That's right, winico uses read() system calls which are not aware of the >>VFS environment which Tcl scripts see. I once hacked up a winico to use >>equivalent Tcl channel calls, to support winico in starkits (scripted >>docs then), but now that more icon support is in std Tk, I no longer use it. > >On occasion I use winico for system tray stuff, but I just copy the icon >files into a temporary file in the native filesystem before pointing >winico at them. > >The name of the temporary directory/folder used by VFS used to be >available, but I'm not sure if this is still the case. I'll have to >check. If it isn't, then maybe tclvfs should expose it. I agree. (looks like it uses $env(TEMP) on windoze, but what does it do if that's not set, and what on other platforms?). Another use for this directory is to copy out programs from the starkit that you want to exec. From andreask@ActiveState.com Tue Sep 24 18:44:59 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ONiwa12854 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:44:59 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8ONj7Q07064 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:45:07 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8ONj7529521 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:45:07 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20020924155415.0fbfc1fe@mailserver.sfu.ca> X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Ian Gay > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 3:54 PM > To: Steve Landers; Starkit mailing list > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit > > > At 07:06 25/09/02 +0800, Steve Landers wrote: > >Michael Jacobson wrote: > > > >>>Does using winico in a Starkit work? I was trying to wrap a > application > >>>that used winico and I found that winico would not load a icon inside > >>>the Starkit. Is this a known issue? > > > >Jean-Claude Wippler replied: > > > >>That's right, winico uses read() system calls which are not aware of the > >>VFS environment which Tcl scripts see. I once hacked up a winico to use > >>equivalent Tcl channel calls, to support winico in starkits (scripted > >>docs then), but now that more icon support is in std Tk, I no > longer use it. > > > >On occasion I use winico for system tray stuff, but I just copy the icon > >files into a temporary file in the native filesystem before pointing > >winico at them. > > > >The name of the temporary directory/folder used by VFS used to be > >available, but I'm not sure if this is still the case. I'll have to > >check. If it isn't, then maybe tclvfs should expose it. > > I agree. (looks like it uses $env(TEMP) on windoze, but what does it do if > that's not set, and what on other platforms?). Another use for this > directory is to copy out programs from the starkit that you want to exec. While I know that [load] copies out automatically, does [exec] the same if the application happens to be in a non-native file system ? IMHO it should. Ditto [open "|..."]. [exec] is actually an [open "|"] in disguise where the std* channels are not made accessible as channels to the script, but consumed internally to make them the returned result of [exec]. -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com From mjacobson@northropgrumman.com Tue Sep 24 21:10:35 2002 Received: from xcgmd810.northgrum.com (xcgmd810.northgrum.com [155.104.240.104]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8P2AZa20074 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:10:35 -0500 Received: by xcgmd810.northgrum.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:24:05 -0700 Message-ID: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E46@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> From: "Jacobson, Michael P." To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:24:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > (Also CC'd to the Starkit mailing list) Sorry I forgot to send it to the list. (my bad) > That's right, winico uses read() system calls which are not aware of the > VFS environment which Tcl scripts see. I once hacked up a winico to use > equivalent Tcl channel calls, to support winico in starkits (scripted > docs then), but now that more icon support is in std Tk, I no longer use it. > -jcw There is more in Winico than is in the std Tk8.4 (Tip 8). I know programs like SnackAmp uses the tool tray functionality of Winico. This means that applications using (or desiring) these Winico features will not be using Starkits for distrubutions. I see a couple possible solutions. The first is modifing an existing application to write the icon out of the VFS and then use winico to load this file (should work but not tested). The second would be to update the the Winico package to support reading from channels. Has any work been done on this package? The last updates I saw were for the TclPro (winico04.dll) but they never appeared back on Peter Brueckner site. The third is to have Tclkit include it a VFS aware version Winico as part of the standard distrubition. It looks like adding Winico to the TclKit distro would add about 10k (based on upx compression of winico03.dll). Fourth do nothing ;-) Mike Jacobson From steve@digital-smarties.com Tue Sep 24 21:33:28 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8P2XRa21172 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 21:33:27 -0500 Received: (qmail 16061 invoked by uid 8); 25 Sep 2002 02:33:40 -0000 Received: from pc-00062 (192.168.1.62, claiming to be "[192.168.1.62]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpd190e6J; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:33:37 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Jacobson, Michael P." , "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:33:35 +0800 Message-Id: <20020925023335.20445@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E46@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> References: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E46@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Michael, >I see a couple possible solutions. > >The first is modifing an existing application to write the icon out of the >VFS and then use winico to load this file (should work but not tested). Will work - a suitable short term solution >The second would be to update the the Winico package to support reading from >channels. Has any work been done on this package? The last updates I saw >were for the TclPro (winico04.dll) but they never appeared back on Peter >Brueckner site. This would be my recommended solution. As JCW mentioned, there was a version floating around that was channel aware. I'll look through my source/mail archive and see if I've got a copy around. >The third is to have Tclkit include it a VFS aware version Winico as part of >the standard distrubition. It looks like adding Winico to the TclKit distro >would add about 10k (based on upx compression of winico03.dll). I'd rather not go this route - if you need the added winico functionality then it would be better adding it to the Starkit. >Fourth do nothing ;-) I don't like this option :-) Steve From cferril@mchsi.com Wed Sep 25 01:05:47 2002 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8P65la30238 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:05:47 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020925060556.ZIKK3589.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@suse80> for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 06:05:56 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Chuck Ferril To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:13:55 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g8P65la30238 Subject: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello, Even though I think I was the only one to raise my hand at Tcl2002 when Jeff asked about those still developing Mac OS 9 applications; the company I work for does develop for OSX as well, but... I'm trying to get a tclkit for OSX that has Tk using the Aqua interface. When I use tclkit-darwin-ppc on OSX, it dies loading Tk complaining that it can't find the X libraries. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I know I could install the X libraries; but I need to have the aqua look and feel and be able to deliver software to customers without them needing to install X. I am not a Mac person myself; so I'm probably sitting on the answer...but I don't see it. I have a hard time keeping up with Apple's versions... but I'm sure we are running the latest version of OSX (maybe 10.2.1, or even 10.3.X since we are Apple developer members). ...so then I tried building a tclkit from scratch, but metakit fails to build properly complaining about being unable to find libSystem or libC and needing to use option -dlopen or something like that. (I'm not at the office right now so I don't have the details on that now; sorry) Thanks for any suggestions, Chuck P.S. ...for what it's worth; I just like to say 'great job' with the whole tclkit/critcl/starkit/starpack projects. I can hardly wait to migrate off my 'home grown' runtime/wrapper. From steve@digital-smarties.com Wed Sep 25 01:27:32 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8P6RVa31318 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:27:31 -0500 Received: (qmail 16827 invoked by uid 8); 25 Sep 2002 06:27:43 -0000 Received: from pc-00062 (192.168.1.62, claiming to be "[192.168.1.62]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdxYavMW; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:27:35 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Chuck Ferril" , "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:27:33 +0800 Message-Id: <20020925062733.11544@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> References: <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Chuck, >I'm trying to get a tclkit for OSX that has Tk using the Aqua interface. > When I use tclkit-darwin-ppc on OSX, it dies loading Tk complaining that it can't >find the X libraries. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I know I could >install the X libraries; but I need to have the aqua look and feel and be >able to deliver software to customers without them needing to install X. There isn't yet a "perfect" TclKit solution on MacOS X. The X11 version has been around for over a year, is feature complete and integrates reasonably well with Aqua using OroborOSx. It's performance is a little sluggish. OTOH, the aqua TclKit is *very* close - JCW has a working version but it has a couple of hardcoded paths that need to be removed. Having said this, there are still a few problems with the Aqua Tk port that might make it unsuitable for delivering to customers. I suggest you wait a little time and see how the Aqua TclKit looks, then make your decision based on which works the best with your application. HTH Steve -- Steve Landers Scripting Design Studio Digital Smarties steve@digital-smarties.com Perth, Western Australia www.digital-smarties.com From akupries@shaw.ca Wed Sep 25 01:35:20 2002 Received: from pd4mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8P6ZJa31744 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:35:19 -0500 Received: from pd2mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr3so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.108]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2Z0022UEB50P@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml6so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml6so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.150]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H2Z0086WEB5NQ@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bluepeak (h24-77-106-58.vc.shawcable.net [24.77.106.58]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with SMTP id <0H2Z00GJ0EB46L@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 00:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=shaw.ca) by bluepeak with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17u5cf-0005zS-00; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:26:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:26:09 -0700 From: Andreas Kupries Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? In-reply-to: Message from Chuck Ferril "of Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:13:55 CDT." <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> To: Chuck Ferril Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 (debian 2.5-1) with nmh-1.0.4+dev Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Hello, > > Even though I think I was the only one to raise my hand at Tcl2002 when Jeff > asked about those still developing Mac OS 9 applications; the company I work > for does develop for OSX as well, but... > > I'm trying to get a tclkit for OSX that has Tk using the Aqua interface. When > I use tclkit-darwin-ppc on OSX, it dies loading Tk complaining that it can't The conference CD should contain an aqua version too. ... A moment ... file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/index.html#getit (Download section) And then file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/darwin/ppc/TclTkAqua-8.4.0.dmg file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/darwin/ppc/TclTkAquaStandalone-8.4. 0.dmg -- So long, Andreas Kupries Developer @ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From steve@digital-smarties.com Wed Sep 25 01:50:42 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8P6ofa32585 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 01:50:41 -0500 Received: (qmail 16915 invoked by uid 8); 25 Sep 2002 06:50:54 -0000 Received: from pc-00062 (192.168.1.62, claiming to be "[192.168.1.62]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdKonAq2; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 02:50:51 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: "Andreas Kupries" , "Chuck Ferril" Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:50:49 +0800 Message-Id: <20020925065049.16478@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Andreas wrote ... >The conference CD should contain an aqua version too. ... A moment ... > >file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/index.html#getit (Download section) > >And then > file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/darwin/ppc/TclTkAqua-8.4.0.dmg > file:///your/path/to/cdrom/here/tclkits/darwin/ppc/ >TclTkAquaStandalone-8.4.0.dmg Note that these are Tcl/Tk packages - not TclKit. As I said, TclKit has been demonstrated and I'm sure it isn't far off (modulo JCW's workload) Cheers Steve From steffen@maths.mq.edu.au Wed Sep 25 03:05:05 2002 Received: from frostbite.ics.mq.edu.au (frostbite.ics.mq.edu.au [137.111.20.107]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8P854a03966 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 03:05:04 -0500 Received: from maths.mq.edu.au (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frostbite.ics.mq.edu.au (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g8P85B4v024912; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:05:12 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 18:05:10 +1000 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-23-946819389 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" To: Chuck Ferril From: "Daniel A. Steffen" In-Reply-To: <200209250113.55543.cferril@mchsi.com> Message-Id: <833204FA-D05D-11D6-A801-003065E46D0C@maths.mq.edu.au> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --Apple-Mail-23-946819389 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Chuck, a tkaqua wish with all the bits embedded so that it can deal with starkits is very close, and that will be useable as a tclkit equivalent. Note however that this won't be a single file executable, but an OSX application bundle with tcl/tk frameworks and extensions embedded. There are some Carbon issues that need to be worked out with single file tkaqua wish/tclkit, currently it doesn't do event handling correctly... On Wednesday, Sep 25, 2002, at 16:13 Australia/Sydney, Chuck Ferril wrote: > metakit fails to build > properly complaining about being unable to find libSystem or libC and > needing > to use option -dlopen or something like that. I fixed this the other day, and set a patch to JC, but it's not checked into cvs yet. essentially you need to update the libtool and autoconf files: ln -fs /usr/share/libtool/{config.guess,config.sub,ltmain.sh} metakit/unix/scripts ln -fs /usr/share/aclocal/libtool.m4 metakit/unix/aclocal.m4 and apply the attached patch (the DESTDIR changes are unrelated and can be omitted if you like). Cheers, Daniel -- ** Daniel A. Steffen ** "And now to something completely ** Dept. of Mathematics ** different" Monty Python ** Macquarie University ** ** NSW 2109 Australia ** --Apple-Mail-23-946819389 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=metakit.diff Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/text; x-unix-mode=0644; x-mac-type=54455854; name="metakit.diff" Index: unix/Makefile.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/metakit/unix/Makefile.in,v retrieving revision 1.37 diff -u -w -r1.37 Makefile.in --- unix/Makefile.in 2002/09/03 08:59:10 1.37 +++ unix/Makefile.in 2002/09/25 07:58:38 @@ -53,6 +53,12 @@ INSTALL_DATA = $L --mode=install @INSTALL_DATA@ INSTALL_PROGRAM = $L --mode=install @INSTALL_PROGRAM@ +LIBTOOL_FLAGS = @LIBTOOL_FLAGS@ + +STRIP_FLAGS = @STRIP_FLAGS@ + +DESTDIR = + #---------- Do not change, shorthand only CXX_SWITCHES = $(CXXFLAGS) \ @@ -77,9 +83,9 @@ core: Makefile libmk4.la $(DEMOS) -tcl: Makefile Mk4tcl.so +tcl: Makefile Mk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ -python: Makefile Mk4py.so +python: Makefile Mk4py@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ test: Makefile libmk4.la regress test -d tests || mkdir tests @@ -94,21 +100,21 @@ install: @MK_INSTALL@ install-mk: libmk4.la - -$(INSTALL) -d $(includedir) $(libdir) + -$(INSTALL) -d $(DESTDIR)$(includedir) $(DESTDIR)$(libdir) $(INSTALL_DATA) $(srcdir)/../include/mk4.h \ $(srcdir)/../include/mk4.inl \ $(srcdir)/../include/mk4str.h \ - $(srcdir)/../include/mk4str.inl $(includedir) - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) libmk4.la $(libdir) + $(srcdir)/../include/mk4str.inl $(DESTDIR)$(includedir) + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) libmk4.la $(DESTDIR)$(libdir) -install-tcl: Mk4tcl.so - -$(INSTALL) -d $(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) Mk4tcl.so $(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl - echo 'package ifneeded Mk4tcl 2.4.7 [list load [file join $$dir Mk4tcl.so] Mk4tcl]' >$(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl/pkgIndex.tcl - -install-python: Mk4py.so - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) Mk4py.so $(pylibdir) - $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $(srcdir)/../python/metakit.py $(pylibdir) +install-tcl: Mk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ + -$(INSTALL) -d $(DESTDIR)$(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) Mk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ $(DESTDIR)$(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl + echo 'package ifneeded Mk4tcl 2.4.7 [list load [file join $$dir Mk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@] Mk4tcl]' >$(DESTDIR)$(tcllibdir)/Mk4tcl/pkgIndex.tcl + +install-python: Mk4py@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) Mk4py@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ $(DESTDIR)$(pylibdir) + $(INSTALL_PROGRAM) $(srcdir)/../python/metakit.py $$(DESTDIR)(pylibdir) clean: $L rm -f *.la *.o *.lo @@ -130,26 +136,26 @@ cd $(srcdir) && autoconf libmk4.la: $(LIBOBJS) - $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) -module -avoid-version \ + $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) $(LIBTOOL_FLAGS) -avoid-version \ -rpath $(libdir) $(SHLOBJS) -Mk4tcl.so: libmk4tcl.la - cp .libs/libmk4tcl.so $@ - -strip $@ 2>/dev/null +Mk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@: libmk4tcl.la + cp .libs/libmk4tcl@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ $@ + -strip $(STRIP_FLAGS) $@ 2>/dev/null libmk4tcl.la: mk4tcl.o mk4too.o $(LIBOBJS) - $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) -module -avoid-version \ + $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) $(LIBTOOL_FLAGS) -avoid-version \ -rpath $(libdir) mk4tcl.lo mk4too.lo $(SHLOBJS) -Mk4py.so: libmk4py.la - cp .libs/libmk4py.so $@ - -strip $@ 2>/dev/null +Mk4py@SHLIB_SUFFIX@: libmk4py.la + cp .libs/libmk4py@SHLIB_SUFFIX@ $@ + -strip $(STRIP_FLAGS) $@ 2>/dev/null libmk4py.la: $(PYOBJS) $(LIBOBJS) - $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) -module -avoid-version \ + $L --mode=link $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) $(LIBTOOL_FLAGS) -avoid-version \ -rpath $(libdir) $(SPYOBJS) $(SHLOBJS) -Mk4lua.so: mk4lua.o libmk4.la +Mk4lua@SHLIB_SUFFIX@: mk4lua.o libmk4.la $(CXX) -o $@ $(CXX_SWITCHES) -shared mk4lua.lo $(SHLOBJS) \ -L$(libdir) -llua -llualib Index: unix/configure.in =================================================================== RCS file: /home/cvs/metakit/unix/configure.in,v retrieving revision 1.12 diff -u -w -r1.12 configure.in --- unix/configure.in 2002/03/14 15:36:20 1.12 +++ unix/configure.in 2002/09/25 07:58:38 @@ -57,9 +57,22 @@ # Checks for library functions. AC_CHECK_FUNCS(mmap memmove bcopy) +SHLIB_SUFFIX=".so" +STRIP_FLAGS= +LIBTOOL_FLAGS=-module + +if test "`uname -s`" = "Darwin" ; then + SHLIB_SUFFIX=".dylib" + LIBTOOL_FLAGS= + STRIP_FLAGS=-S +fi + AC_SUBST(MK_TARGETS) AC_SUBST(MK_INSTALL) AC_SUBST(TCL_INCLUDE_DIR) AC_SUBST(EXEEXT) +AC_SUBST(SHLIB_SUFFIX) +AC_SUBST(LIBTOOL_FLAGS) +AC_SUBST(STRIP_FLAGS) AC_OUTPUT(Makefile) --Apple-Mail-23-946819389-- From vince.darley@eurobios.com Wed Sep 25 05:13:59 2002 Received: from msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (IDENT:mirapoint@msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk [212.67.96.149]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PADwa11018 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 05:13:58 -0500 Received: from trapper.eurobios.com ([62.159.235.3]) by msgdirector2.onetel.net.uk (Mirapoint) with ESMTP id ALI83748 (AUTH vincedarley); Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:12:02 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <5.1.1.5.0.20020925111228.0261f4e8@mail.wolfbusiness.com> X-Sender: vincedarley@mail.onetel.net.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:14:14 +0100 To: "Starkit mailing list" From: Vince Darley Subject: RE: [Starkit] Re: Question about using Winico in a Starkit In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20020924155415.0fbfc1fe@mailserver.sfu.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: At 04:45 PM 9/24/2002 -0700, Andreas Kupries wrote: >While I know that [load] copies out automatically, does [exec] the same if >the application happens to be in a non-native file system ? IMHO it should. >Ditto [open "|..."]. [exec] is actually an [open "|"] in disguise where the >std* channels are not made accessible as channels to the script, but >consumed >internally to make them the returned result of [exec]. No, it doesn't. Please see the patch (sorry no location right now) accessible throught the Wiki pages on 'pipes and exec and vfs'. I could never get the test suite to pass 100% with that patch in place (got down to 4 minor errors). The first step is that 'TclFile' must be replaced by Tcl_Channel internally, after that the rest should be pretty easy (and would allow a lot of pretty cool new functionality). If someone wants to give this a go, it would be great! cheers, Vince. From cferril@mchsi.com Wed Sep 25 08:18:11 2002 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PDIAa23940 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:18:10 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020925131820.YUJ3589.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@suse80>; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:18:20 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chuck Ferril To: "Daniel A. Steffen" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 08:26:21 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" References: <833204FA-D05D-11D6-A801-003065E46D0C@maths.mq.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <833204FA-D05D-11D6-A801-003065E46D0C@maths.mq.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200209250826.21833.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g8PDIAa23940 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thanks! I'll see what I can get running. Chuck On Wednesday 25 September 2002 3:05 am, Daniel A. Steffen wrote: > Chuck, > > a tkaqua wish with all the bits embedded so that it can deal with > starkits is very close, and that will be useable as a tclkit equivalent. > Note however that this won't be a single file executable, but an OSX > application bundle with tcl/tk frameworks and extensions embedded. > There are some Carbon issues that need to be worked out with single > file tkaqua wish/tclkit, currently it doesn't do event handling > correctly... > > On Wednesday, Sep 25, 2002, at 16:13 Australia/Sydney, Chuck Ferril > > wrote: > > metakit fails to build > > properly complaining about being unable to find libSystem or libC and > > needing > > to use option -dlopen or something like that. > > I fixed this the other day, and set a patch to JC, but it's not checked > into cvs yet. > > essentially you need to update the libtool and autoconf files: > > ln -fs /usr/share/libtool/{config.guess,config.sub,ltmain.sh} > metakit/unix/scripts > ln -fs /usr/share/aclocal/libtool.m4 metakit/unix/aclocal.m4 > > and apply the attached patch (the DESTDIR changes are unrelated and can > be omitted if you like). > > Cheers, > > Daniel From michael@cleverly.com Wed Sep 25 12:26:16 2002 Received: from mgr1.xmission.com (mgr1.xmission.com [198.60.22.201]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PHQGa15076 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:26:16 -0500 Received: from [198.60.22.200] (helo=mail.xmission.com) by mgr1.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17uFvj-000462-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:26:31 -0600 Received: from [166.70.107.99] (helo=gibraltar.deseretbook.net) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17uFvj-0002FU-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:26:31 -0600 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:26:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Michael A. Cleverly" To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [Starkit] application-specific initialization failed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Now that I've caught up with things after getting back from Vancouver, I'm excited to try Starkits out. I went to http://www.equi4.com/starkit/, chose the "Getting started on Unix" link and followed the instructions to get TclWorld running (on Linux x86). I downloaded: * http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tclkit-linux-x86.gz * http://mini.net/sdarchive/tclworld.kit When I try and run the demo I get the following: [michael@guarana downloads]$ tclkit tclworld.kit application-specific initialization failed: unknown encoding "iso8859-1" This requires a new TclKit release, see http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ while executing "error $e" invoked from within "if {[catch { package require starkit; starkit::header mk4 -readonly }]} { set e "This requires a new TclKit release, see http://www.equi4.com/tclkit..." (file "tclworld.kit" line 4) Aren't the encoding files included in either the tclkit binaries vfs or in the .kit file? Thanks in advance, Michael From rohan@rohanpall.com Wed Sep 25 12:27:42 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PHRfa15249 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:27:41 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8PHRuk08156 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 10:27:56 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:27:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <53964.10.3.36.17.1032974876.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:27:56 -0400 (EDT) From: "Rohan Pall" To: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] vfs commits Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I've noticed that when writing files to the vfs, they don't get flushed to disk until the starkit exits. This behaviour is on Windows98 1st ed, Windows 95, and Linux. Try this: In the console open a file, write something to the file handle, then close the file. Wait 10 minutes (the 5s timer should have flushed by now), and notice that the file has not changed size or modification time. Exit your starkit. Notice that the file has been modified and increased in size. Does anyone know where I should look in the code to debug this problem? Thanks a million! Ro From jcw@equi4.com Wed Sep 25 12:38:41 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PHcea16279 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:38:40 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:38:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] application-specific initialization failed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit mailing list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael, > Now that I've caught up with things after getting back from Vancouver, > I'm > excited to try Starkits out. > > I went to http://www.equi4.com/starkit/, chose the "Getting started on > Unix" link and followed the instructions to get TclWorld running (on > Linux > x86). I downloaded: > > * http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/tclkit-linux-x86.gz > * http://mini.net/sdarchive/tclworld.kit > > When I try and run the demo I get the following: > > [michael@guarana downloads]$ tclkit tclworld.kit > application-specific initialization failed: unknown encoding > "iso8859-1" > This requires a new TclKit release, see http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ Yikes, encodings hit again. What do you get as output from the following two commands when typed into a tclkit session started without cmd-line args? encoding system encoding names Or does that fail as well? Just to be sure, please also try the latest tclkit at http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Wed Sep 25 12:42:10 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PHgAa16627 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:42:10 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:42:21 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] vfs commits Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit mailing list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <53964.10.3.36.17.1032974876.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Message-Id: <24C7B01A-D0AE-11D6-8FA9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Rohan Pall wrote: > I've noticed that when writing files to the vfs, they don't get > flushed to > disk until the starkit exits. This behaviour is on Windows98 1st ed, > Windows 95, and Linux. > > Try this: > In the console open a file, write something to the file handle, then > close > the file. > Wait 10 minutes (the 5s timer should have flushed by now), and notice > that > the file has not changed size or modification time. > Exit your starkit. Hm... did you create the starkit? Note that the default is to open r/o nowadays - though in that case it's a bug if this action does not generate an error. > Does anyone know where I should look in the code to debug this problem? TclKit source distribution, kitsh.vfs/lib/vfs/mk4vfs.tcl - $flush variable. -jcw From rohan@rohanpall.com Wed Sep 25 13:05:44 2002 Received: from pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (root@pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.16]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PI5ia19115 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:05:44 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (dhapache@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pochacco.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8PI5xk09501 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:05:59 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <36384.10.3.36.17.1032977159.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [Starkit] vfs commits From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: <24C7B01A-D0AE-11D6-8FA9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> References: <53964.10.3.36.17.1032974876.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> <24C7B01A-D0AE-11D6-8FA9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Hm... did you create the starkit? Note that the default is to open r/o > nowadays - though in that case it's a bug if this action does not > generate an error. Yes, its -writable I'll see what I can do with that $flush variable, thanks. Ro From david@davudsplace.net Wed Sep 25 13:07:56 2002 Received: from restofus (dsl093-039-044.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.39.44]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PI7ta19351 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:07:56 -0500 Received: from lagniappe.davudsplace.net (lagniappe [192.168.1.66]) by restofus (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E1A1F64F for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagniappe.davudsplace.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9AF3CC045; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:08:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15761.64388.107239.61573@davudsplace.net> Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:08:04 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] loading extensions into Tclkit In-Reply-To: <20020924210239.22438@triqs.com> References: <15760.52157.972187.746468@davudsplace.net> <20020924210239.22438@triqs.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Reply-To: david@davudsplace.net From: david@davudsplace.net (david may) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: It seems that loading my extensions fails ONLY when they have external .so dependancies. Such as oracle libs or Postgresql libs I made a test file and tried commenting out and uncommenting the conn = PQsetdb(pghost, pgport, pgoptions, pgtty, dbName); statement. It works in tclsh8.4 both ways. But loading into tclkit fails if I try and do the database connection. I am sure this is some loader flad I need but I have tried almost every one on the man page.. >>>>> "Jean-Claude" == Jean-Claude Wippler writes: Jean-Claude> david may wrote: >> I have had this problem with a number of extensions I have >> created. They will load and work fine with tclsh. But I get a >> segv when I try and load them into a tclkit. >> >> Today I tried critcl.kit from steve's site and ther same >> problem occurs. Seems if there is a reference to an external >> .so, in this case /usr/lib/libpq.so, the critcl code crashes >> tclkit. But I can load .so that critcl compiles into tclsh8.4 >> and it runs flawlessly. This is some kind of ld.so magic I >> suppose. >> >> I have tried a bunch of compile flags and librariy flags, >> including -lpq but no joy.. can any one enlighten me? Jean-Claude> The usual culprit is not compiling the .so(s) with Jean-Claude> stubs enabled. There may be a problem also when Jean-Claude> compiling with 8.4a* tcl headers. Reason: the .so Jean-Claude> will load against the installed tcl/tk shared libs, Jean-Claude> which is wrong when run under tclkit (or any other Jean-Claude> version of tcl than is installed). When used against Jean-Claude> the installed tclsh, things work because calls can be Jean-Claude> resolved without stubs. Jean-Claude> If "load blah.so" fails, then please check the output Jean-Claude> of "ldd blah.so" or "nm -g blah.so". If there is a Jean-Claude> reference to libtcl*.so in there (ldd), or an Jean-Claude> undefined Tcl_* routine (nm), then the extension was Jean-Claude> not properly built with stubs. Jean-Claude> What version do you have of tclsh8.4 (i.e. "info Jean-Claude> patchlevel")? Jean-Claude> Can you successfully run a basic critcl example? Jean-Claude> -jcw Jean-Claude> _______________________________________________ Jean-Claude> starkit mailing list starkit@equi4.com Jean-Claude> http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From michael@cleverly.com Wed Sep 25 13:17:30 2002 Received: from mgr1.xmission.com (mgr1.xmission.com [198.60.22.201]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PIHUa20238; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:17:30 -0500 Received: from [198.60.22.200] (helo=mail.xmission.com) by mgr1.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17uGjJ-0005qM-00; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:17:45 -0600 Received: from [166.70.107.99] (helo=gibraltar.deseretbook.net) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 17uGjI-0005Xq-00; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:17:44 -0600 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 12:17:35 -0600 (MDT) From: "Michael A. Cleverly" To: Jean-Claude Wippler cc: Starkit mailing list Subject: Re: [Starkit] application-specific initialization failed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > Yikes, encodings hit again. What do you get as output from the > following two commands when typed into a tclkit session started without > cmd-line args? > > encoding system > encoding names Here is what I get: [michael@guarana michael]$ tclkit application-specific initialization failed: unknown encoding "iso8859-1" % encoding system identity % encoding names utf-8 identity unicode % > Or does that fail as well? Just to be sure, please also try the latest > tclkit at > http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ I downloaded http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/linux-i686.gz and it works: [michael@guarana downloads]$ ./linux-i686 % encoding system iso8859-1 % encoding names iso8859-2 utf-8 cp1252 ascii macRoman identity unicode iso8859-1 % and TclWorld runs fine. There isn't a macos-68k version in /pub/tk/newer, though there is a tclkit-macos-68k.bin (dated Sept 9th) in /pub/tk. Are the encodings compiled in or could they be added to the vfs w/o recompilation? Thanks, Michael From jcw@equi4.com Wed Sep 25 14:01:45 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PJ1ha24289 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:01:43 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:01:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] application-specific initialization failed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit mailing list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <420822D4-D0B9-11D6-8FA9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael A. Cleverly wrote: The "current" tclkit release (I assume, i.e. /pub/tk/) gives: > [michael@guarana michael]$ tclkit > application-specific initialization failed: unknown encoding > "iso8859-1" > % encoding system > identity > % encoding names > utf-8 identity unicode > % The /pub/tk/newer/ build - which I do just to track changes whenever I can: > [michael@guarana downloads]$ ./linux-i686 > % encoding system > iso8859-1 > % encoding names > iso8859-2 utf-8 cp1252 ascii macRoman identity unicode iso8859-1 > % > > and TclWorld runs fine. This is surprising in fact - I checked, both have the same encoding calls in boot.tcl - which is what was changed on July 11 (see newer/CHANGES). There is no logic in seeing one fail and the other succeed w.r.t. encodings... > There isn't a macos-68k version in /pub/tk/newer, though there is a > tclkit-macos-68k.bin (dated Sept 9th) in /pub/tk. Are the encodings > compiled in or could they be added to the vfs w/o recompilation? Apart from what you ran into, encoding "ought" to work by now, including all Sep 2002 builds. So the tclkit-macos-68k.bin one should in fact be ok - no? Note that all recent encoding issues appear to be related to a fundamental startup issue in the tcl core - tclkit needs to create an interp to set up the tclvfs-based logic, which is based on Tcl scripts (i.e. vfs.tcl and mk4vfs.tcl), and only *after* that are the encoding files available for Tcl to pick up. But to create the interp, one seems to need to call Tcl_FindExecutable first (which also deals with encodings). It's a bit of a catch-22, requiring extra C code right now (in src/pwb.c) in tclkit to be able to adjust the librarypath in tcl. I wish I could understand it well enough to figure out a solution :( - I still fail to understand why Tcl can't just meddle without encodings (i.e. the default binary or utf-8), and then adjusts a few things internally when proper encoding paths are supplied to it (in VFS). -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Wed Sep 25 15:04:14 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PK4Da28571 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:04:14 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8PK3Li02709 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:03:30 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Starkit mailing list" Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 15:09:03 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi All, I have just recently started experimenting with Starkits again - fueled somewhat by Steve Lander's excellent paper entitled "Beyond TclKit - Starkits, Starpacks and other *stuff". Anyway, I am working with WinNT and have what I believe is the latest starkit utilities - just downloaded today from equi4.com (tclkit, tclkitsh, and sdx). Anyway, when I follow the hello.tcl example in Steve's paper, I don't end up with the directory structure as depicted there. I have a "main.tcl" and "lib" in the root level of "hello.vfs" - so far so good. If I cd into "lib", I have only "hello.tcl", not a directory called "app-hello" containing "hello.tcl" and a pkgIndex.tcl file. I'm guessing that what I see is an "older" directory structure? If so, do I need newer utilities, or is the structure presented in Steve's paper not yet official? Also, the "main.tcl" program is "sourcing" the hello.tcl script instead of using [package require] as specified in the paper. I couldn't get the qwrap, unwrap, wrap sequence to work out of the box with a more complex app, so I started making some manual changes. Ultimately, I was able to wrap a more complex app up into a StarPack - complete with several tcl-only extensions, but it was a somewhat frustrating experience. I created directory structures to match those in Steve's paper by hand, and placed most files by hand. I also had to add the package require and package provide commands by hand and create several pkgIndex.tcl files. In the end, all is now working - but where did I go wrong? Any suggestions are welcomed. Thanks, Jeff Godfrey Optimation USA Phone: 816.836.2000 Fax : 816.836.8589 Email: mailto:jgodfrey@optinest.com Fabtech is coming!!! For information on how to receive FREE tickets to the Fabtech show, log on to our web-site. http://www.optimation.com From jcw@equi4.com Wed Sep 25 17:19:59 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8PMJwa04999 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:19:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 00:20:08 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "Starkit mailing list" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: > I have just recently started experimenting with Starkits again - fueled > somewhat by Steve Lander's excellent paper entitled "Beyond TclKit - > Starkits, Starpacks and other *stuff". Anyway, I am working with > WinNT and > have what I believe is the latest starkit utilities - just downloaded > today > from equi4.com (tclkit, tclkitsh, and sdx). Anyway, when I follow the > hello.tcl example in Steve's paper, I don't end up with the directory > structure as depicted there. All problems are probably caused by sdx.kit on the web not being up to date. I'll coordinate with Steve Landers to make sure we get a proper setup out there ASAP, to match the paper - which is now the reference for all *stuff... > In the end, all is now working - but where did I go wrong? You didn't. We are consolidating right now... sorry to hear you had to struggle that much, -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Thu Sep 26 09:42:45 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QEgja18020; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:42:45 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8QEfUi08438; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:41:56 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" , "Starkit mailing list" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:47:20 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC, Thanks. I kind of figured Steve's paper was just a little ahead of what was publicly available. Will we receive notification of the updated sdx.kit file on this list, or do I need to keep checking the dates of the sdx files on equi4.com? Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Jean-Claude Wippler > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 5:20 PM > To: Starkit mailing list > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles > > > Jeff Godfrey wrote: > > > I have just recently started experimenting with Starkits again - fueled > > somewhat by Steve Lander's excellent paper entitled "Beyond TclKit - > > Starkits, Starpacks and other *stuff". Anyway, I am working with > > WinNT and > > have what I believe is the latest starkit utilities - just downloaded > > today > > from equi4.com (tclkit, tclkitsh, and sdx). Anyway, when I follow the > > hello.tcl example in Steve's paper, I don't end up with the directory > > structure as depicted there. > > All problems are probably caused by sdx.kit on the web not being up to > date. I'll coordinate with Steve Landers to make sure we get a proper > setup out there ASAP, to match the paper - which is now the reference > for all *stuff... > > > In the end, all is now working - but where did I go wrong? > > You didn't. We are consolidating right now... sorry to hear you had to > struggle that much, > > -jcw > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 26 10:48:45 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QFmia23862; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:48:44 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:48:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: "Starkit mailing list" To: "Jeff Godfrey" From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <77328B4A-D167-11D6-BD3E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff, all, > Thanks. I kind of figured Steve's paper was just a little ahead of > what was > publicly available. Will we receive notification of the updated > sdx.kit > file on this list, or do I need to keep checking the dates of the sdx > files > on equi4.com? Pling! The "sdx.kit" tool you requested has been updated :) -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 26 11:01:35 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QG1Xa25075 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:01:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:01:45 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "Starkit mailing list" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <77328B4A-D167-11D6-BD3E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Message-Id: <41C0FCAA-D169-11D6-BD3E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Whoops! > Pling! The "sdx.kit" tool you requested has been updated :) It might help to sync the server to what I have here (thanks, Larry). Computers: never a dull moment... -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Thu Sep 26 12:11:56 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QHBta30990; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:11:55 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8QHAci10144; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:10:57 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" Cc: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 12:16:33 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 In-Reply-To: <77328B4A-D167-11D6-BD3E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC, I grabbed the new sdx.kit file and all is now well in the land of Starkits. Everything followed along with Steve's paper perfectly. My Starkit build experience with the new sdx.kit file was *much* more agreeable than my previous attempts. Thanks for the update, and keep up the good work. This is exciting stuff! Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Claude Wippler [mailto:jcw@equi4.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:49 AM > To: Jeff Godfrey > Cc: Starkit mailing list > Subject: Re: [Starkit] Starkit build troubles > > > Jeff, all, > > > Thanks. I kind of figured Steve's paper was just a little ahead of > > what was > > publicly available. Will we receive notification of the updated > > sdx.kit > > file on this list, or do I need to keep checking the dates of the sdx > > files > > on equi4.com? > > Pling! The "sdx.kit" tool you requested has been updated :) > > -jcw From david@davudsplace.net Thu Sep 26 15:45:25 2002 Received: from restofus (dsl093-039-044.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net [66.93.39.44]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QKjOa18372 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:45:24 -0500 Received: from lagniappe.davudsplace.net (lagniappe [192.168.1.66]) by restofus (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C53F1F654 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:44:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lagniappe.davudsplace.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A5A2BC046; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:45:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15763.29166.483362.218053@davudsplace.net> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 13:45:34 -0700 To: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailer: VM 7.03 under Emacs 21.2.1 Reply-To: david@davudsplace.net From: david@davudsplace.net (david may) Subject: [Starkit] starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: before I download and learn how to build a tclkit executable, perhaps someone already has one built with debuging enabled? Gdb does not seem to like the stock tclkit. I am trying to build and extension that used the postgresql libpq. A test doing only a PQconnectdb("dbname=template"); in a simple stubs enabled extension, works fine in tclsh8.4.0 but segfaults tclkit after loading when I try and execute my new command It works fine up untill the call out to PQconnect. Apparently something in PQconnect is trashing tclkit or vice versa. thanks davud From jcw@equi4.com Thu Sep 26 18:17:42 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8QNHfa30512 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 18:17:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 01:17:53 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] starkit@equi4.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <15763.29166.483362.218053@davudsplace.net> Message-Id: <2E986F06-D1A6-11D6-8D49-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: David, > before I download and learn how to build a tclkit > executable, perhaps someone already has one built with > debuging enabled? Gdb does not seem to like the stock tclkit. There's a script "Mg.sh" in the tclkit source distribution (also in CVS) which builds with debugging enabled. I've placed a fresh build at pub/tk/newer/tclkitg-linux86.gz (created with Mg.sh). Good luck with debugging - I have no idea why tclkit won't work with your extension... wait - hang on: try building wish statically - it might be easier to debug that way if it fails as well. -jcw From cferril@mchsi.com Thu Sep 26 23:10:16 2002 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8R4AGa14522 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:10:16 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020927041027.TCTL3589.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@suse80>; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 04:10:27 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chuck Ferril To: "Steve Landers" , "Andreas Kupries" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 23:18:33 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" References: <20020925065049.16478@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: <20020925065049.16478@mail.digital-smarties.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200209262318.33056.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g8R4AGa14522 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > > Andreas wrote ... > > file:///your_cdrom/tclkits/darwin/ppc/TclTkAqua-8.4.0.dmg > > file:///your_cdrom/tclkits/darwin/ppc/TclTkAquaStandalone-8.4.0.dmg > > Note that these are Tcl/Tk packages - not TclKit. Thanks for all the help, At this point I've settled on using Tclkit's for Linux and Windows; and the TclTkAquaStandalone bundle for our OSX solution, at least until a Tclkit is working on OSX Aqua. (should I be calling these StarKits?) I've found that the 'bundled' TclTk app on the Mac allows me to somewhat simulate a Tclkit, in that I can put it all into a virtual disk (dmg) and deliver to customers that way. Not ideal; but fine for now. I have also made some tweaks to critcl to get it running on the Mac; mainly quoting of paths to allow spaces (Mac users love those spaces), and will be posting those somewhere after it gets a little more testing. > Steve Landers wrote: > > As I said, TclKit has been demonstrated and I'm sure it isn't far off > (modulo JCW's workload) > If JCW would like some help on the Tclkit Mac 'port'...please let me know, as I'm sure I could get some time to work on it. Again; thanks to all involved for such a great set of tools! I had started down the path to build my own 'batteries-included' runtime with all the extensions that I generally used; although it was nowhere near as elegant at StarKits. Now I just need to figure out a good use for my old tclmonster.com address... :-) Chuck From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 01:31:18 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8R6VHa20304 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 01:31:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:31:30 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Is there a tclkit for Mac OSX with an aqua version of tk? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <200209262318.33056.cferril@mchsi.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Chuck Ferril wrote: > At this point I've settled on using Tclkit's for Linux and Windows; > and the > TclTkAquaStandalone bundle for our OSX solution, at least until a > Tclkit is > working on OSX Aqua. (should I be calling these StarKits?) No, starkits are the apps: starkit + tclkit = working solution. Starpack = starkit + tclkit combined into one file. > I've found that the 'bundled' TclTk app on the Mac allows me to > somewhat > simulate a Tclkit, in that I can put it all into a virtual disk (dmg) > and > deliver to customers that way. Not ideal; but fine for now. My first goal is to have a "tclkit-aqua" working asap, in exactly the form you describe: packaged as tclkit.app framework, and shipped as .tar.gz (or .dmg, whatever). That approach needs to be able to run starkits, so the same app can be used on all platforms, including MacOS X Aqua (MacOS XonX and MacOS Classic are already covered - boy there's a lot of new ground to cover for the Mac, unfortunately). Later, I'm hoping Daniel Steffen and I can figure out a way to create a single-file exectable for Aqua - or if not, that I can at least find a way to generate starpacks for Aqua on other platforms (packaging as .tar.gz if .dmg x-platform generation is too hard). Note that a similar issue still needs to be addressed for MacOS Classic as well (7.5.5..9.2.2, 68k and ppc): there is currently no way to create a starpack for it, other than *on* the Mac, but it looks quite doable to work out a few details (altering a MacBinary file). > I have also made some tweaks to critcl to get it running on the Mac; > mainly > quoting of paths to allow spaces (Mac users love those spaces), and > will be > posting those somewhere after it gets a little more testing. Thanks - most timely: yesterday, I placed CriTcl into CVS, see bottom of http://mini.net/tcl/2523 Went through a few file path quoting issues myself, please compare and let me know which cases I missed. There's now an updated critcl.kit in http://mini.net/sdarchive/. [tclkit aqua] > If JCW would like some help on the Tclkit Mac 'port'...please let me > know, as > I'm sure I could get some time to work on it. Very much appreciated, Chuck. The one remaining issue seems to be critcl-related. The shared libs it generates appear to have a path dependency left in them. I'll investigate in a moment, but you can try things yourself: just use "critcl -pkg ..." on OSX, and remove the generated temp files from your $HOME/.critcl/ area. In my case, zlib and rchan (both needed in tclkit) seemed to stop functioning once moved around. Apart from that, I think I have a single tclkit.app/ working, running a copy of the Tcl'ers Wiki as demo, so we should be nearly there. I'll get in touch if I can't fix it quickly, thanks. > Again; thanks to all involved for such a great set of tools! I had > started > down the path to build my own 'batteries-included' runtime with all the > extensions that I generally used; although it was nowhere near as > elegant at > StarKits. Now I just need to figure out a good use for my old > tclmonster.com > address... :-) :) -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Fri Sep 27 08:56:23 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RDuNa20075 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:56:23 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8RDtBr16574 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:55:36 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Starkit mailing list" Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:01:12 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Subject: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi All, I've done some *very* basic experimentation with a "writable" Starkit / Starpack, but can't seem to get the expected results. I am using the latest (as of yesterday) sdx.kit file on WinNT. Here's what I've done... - create a simple tcl file --> myfile.tcl - sdx qwrap myfile.tcl - sdx unwrap myfile.kit - sdx wrap myfile.kit -writable - sdx wrap myfile.exe -runtime tclkit_copy.exe -writable - Run the app - ./myfile.exe - Open a console - "cd" to myfile.exe/lib - [glob *] to see the content of my lib directory - [file copy c:/sometextfile.txt .] - [glob *] to verify that my copied file is in my virtual "lib" directory - [exit] - Now, I run my app again and "cd" to myfile.exe/lib - [glob *] to see the contents of my lib directory - everything is as it should be, except "sometextfile.txt" is missing... Should this have worked, or am I misunderstanding something? Thanks, Jeff Godfrey Optimation USA Phone: 816.836.2000 Fax : 816.836.8589 Email: mailto:jgodfrey@optinest.com Fabtech is coming!!! For information on how to receive FREE tickets to the Fabtech show, log on to our web-site. http://www.optimation.com From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 09:17:20 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8REHJa22009; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:17:19 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:17:31 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: "Starkit mailing list" To: "Jeff Godfrey" From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: > I've done some *very* basic experimentation with a "writable" Starkit / > Starpack, but can't seem to get the expected results. I am using the > latest > (as of yesterday) sdx.kit file on WinNT. Here's what I've done... > > - create a simple tcl file --> myfile.tcl > - sdx qwrap myfile.tcl > - sdx unwrap myfile.kit > - sdx wrap myfile.kit -writable So far so good. > - sdx wrap myfile.exe -runtime tclkit_copy.exe -writable No, this won't work, unfortunately. A starpack, which is what you are creating here, is read-only as far as its embedded VFS is - this is an OS limitation: you cannot write to an executable file while it is running, and that includes whatever data is at the end of it. > - Run the app - ./myfile.exe > - Open a console > - "cd" to myfile.exe/lib > - [glob *] to see the content of my lib directory > - [file copy c:/sometextfile.txt .] > - [glob *] to verify that my copied file is in my virtual "lib" > directory > - [exit] The file copy and check appear to work, in fact they do make a copy - but only in memory. The commit of the MK datafile, every 5s as well as on exit - will fail. The bug here seems to be that you should have received either a bgerror - if the 5s commit timer fires and commit fails, or an exit error. I'm not sure why this "fails to fail". > - Now, I run my app again and "cd" to myfile.exe/lib > - [glob *] to see the contents of my lib directory > - everything is as it should be, except "sometextfile.txt" is > missing... This is as expected - only starkits, and only if created by sdx as "-writable", can be modified. If you *really* want to achieve such "self-modifying executable" behavior, you could create a new starpack and rename underneath yourself (it's quite tricky, but it can be done). -jcw From jgodfrey@optinest.com Fri Sep 27 09:25:11 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8REPBa22758; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:25:11 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8RENur16886; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:24:01 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Jean-Claude Wippler" Cc: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:29:57 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JC, Thanks for the quick response. So, it seems that the Star*pack* was the problem, but a Star*kit* should work as expected. I'll try that out. That's what I needed to know. Thanks, Jeff Godfrey > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Claude Wippler [mailto:jcw@equi4.com] > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:18 AM > To: Jeff Godfrey > Cc: Starkit mailing list > Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? > > > Jeff Godfrey wrote: > > > I've done some *very* basic experimentation with a "writable" Starkit / > > Starpack, but can't seem to get the expected results. I am using the > > latest > > (as of yesterday) sdx.kit file on WinNT. Here's what I've done... > > > > - create a simple tcl file --> myfile.tcl > > - sdx qwrap myfile.tcl > > - sdx unwrap myfile.kit > > - sdx wrap myfile.kit -writable > > So far so good. > > > - sdx wrap myfile.exe -runtime tclkit_copy.exe -writable > > No, this won't work, unfortunately. A starpack, which is what you are > creating here, is read-only as far as its embedded VFS is - this is an > OS limitation: you cannot write to an executable file while it is > running, and that includes whatever data is at the end of it. > > > - Run the app - ./myfile.exe > > - Open a console > > - "cd" to myfile.exe/lib > > - [glob *] to see the content of my lib directory > > - [file copy c:/sometextfile.txt .] > > - [glob *] to verify that my copied file is in my virtual "lib" > > directory > > - [exit] > > The file copy and check appear to work, in fact they do make a copy - > but only in memory. The commit of the MK datafile, every 5s as well as > on exit - will fail. > > The bug here seems to be that you should have received either a bgerror > - if the 5s commit timer fires and commit fails, or an exit error. > > I'm not sure why this "fails to fail". > > > - Now, I run my app again and "cd" to myfile.exe/lib > > - [glob *] to see the contents of my lib directory > > - everything is as it should be, except "sometextfile.txt" is > > missing... > > This is as expected - only starkits, and only if created by sdx as > "-writable", can be modified. > > If you *really* want to achieve such "self-modifying executable" > behavior, you could create a new starpack and rename underneath > yourself (it's quite tricky, but it can be done). > > -jcw From rohan@rohanpall.com Fri Sep 27 09:45:57 2002 Received: from chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (chococat.ex.dreamhost.com [64.70.42.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8REjva24531 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:45:57 -0500 Received: from rohanpall.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chococat.ex.dreamhost.com (8.11.0/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id g8REkBh17334 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 07:46:11 -0700 Received: from 10.3.36.17 (SquirrelMail authenticated user rohan@rohanpall.com) by webmail.rohanpall.com with HTTP; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35331.10.3.36.17.1033137971.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? From: "Rohan Pall" To: In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: DreamHost Webmail MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey said: > Thanks for the quick response. So, it seems that the Star*pack* was the > problem, but a Star*kit* should work as expected. I'll try that out. Hey Jeff, I was having some problems with the commit. Could you please let us know what happens when you write to the vfs in a star*kit* - do the changes get saved when you close the file in the vfs, or only after the starkit exits? Thanks a lot. Ro From jgodfrey@optinest.com Fri Sep 27 10:10:30 2002 Received: from linux2.optinest.com (node-20.65.210.128.in-addr.arpa [65.210.128.20] (may be forged)) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RFAUa26687 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:10:30 -0500 Received: from nt40ld (nt4-0ld [65.210.128.93]) by linux2.optinest.com (8.11.6/8.11.3) with SMTP id g8RF8br17463; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:09:03 -0500 From: "Jeff Godfrey" To: "Rohan Pall" , Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:14:38 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <35331.10.3.36.17.1033137971.squirrel@webmail.rohanpall.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hmmm... I'm not sure how to tell. I have verified that a "-writable" starkit works correctly under these circumstances (WinNT): - sdx wrap mykit.kit -writable - tclkit mykit.kit - cd mykit.kit - file copy c:/text.txt . - [glob *] to verify "text.txt" exists - exit - tclkit mykit.kit - cd mykit.kit - [glob *] to verify "text.txt" exists - exit Since, according to JCW, an in-memory copy of the file is created - which shows up with [glob *] whether it has been committed or not, how do I know if it has been officially committed to the filesystem without exiting and restarting the starkit? And if I exit, which automatically commits the file changes, how do I know if the 5 second timer committed the change or my [exit] committed the change? I'm not sure... If you can tell me how to better test this, I'll be happy to do it... Thanks, Jeff > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Rohan Pall > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:46 AM > To: starkit@equi4.com > Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? > > > Jeff Godfrey said: > > > Thanks for the quick response. So, it seems that the Star*pack* was the > > problem, but a Star*kit* should work as expected. I'll try that out. > > Hey Jeff, I was having some problems with the commit. Could you please > let us know what happens when you write to the vfs in a star*kit* - do the > changes get saved when you close the file in the vfs, or only after the > starkit exits? Thanks a lot. > > Ro > > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Sep 27 11:31:01 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RGV1a01620 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:31:01 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id JAA17456 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:29:06 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id JAA29432 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:31:17 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YR4AF; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:31:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3D9487D5.800F180B@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:31:17 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit mailing list References: <3.0.6.16.20020924155415.0fbfc1fe@mailserver.sfu.ca> <5.1.1.5.0.20020925111228.0261f4e8@mail.wolfbusiness.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Suffix handling? Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I would like to see the 'sdx wrap' command add '.kit' when it creates a starkit and leave it off when it creates a starpack. This would help standardize on '.kit' as the extension and also help with systematically distinguish between the two types of output. Would this create a problem for anyone? Tom Krehbiel From andreask@ActiveState.com Fri Sep 27 11:36:11 2002 Received: from smtp1.ActiveState.com (gw.activestate.com [209.17.183.249]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RGaBa02128 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:36:11 -0500 Received: from smtp3.ActiveState.com (smtp3.ActiveState.com [192.168.3.19]) by smtp1.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RGaMQ08235 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:36:22 -0700 Received: from axle (axle.activestate.com [192.168.3.183]) by smtp3.ActiveState.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g8RGaL506511 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:36:21 -0700 From: "Andreas Kupries" To: "Starkit mailing list" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Suffix handling? Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 09:36:21 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3D9487D5.800F180B@motorola.com> X-Filtered-By: PerlMx makes it fast and easy. See http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/PerlMx/Header Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On windows starpacks should have the .exe extension Beyond that I see no fault with the proposal -- Andreas Kupries Developer @ http://www.ActiveState.com > -----Original Message----- > From: starkit-admin@equi4.com [mailto:starkit-admin@equi4.com]On Behalf > Of Tom Krehbiel > Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 9:31 AM > Cc: Starkit mailing list > Subject: [Starkit] Suffix handling? > > > I would like to see the 'sdx wrap' command add '.kit' when it > creates a starkit and leave it off when it creates a starpack. This > would help standardize on '.kit' as the extension and also help > with systematically distinguish between the two types of output. > Would this create a problem for anyone? > > Tom Krehbiel > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 12:33:10 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RHX9a07467; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:33:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:33:21 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: Jim Ingham To: Starkit list From: Jean-Claude Wippler Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <37EB5A66-D23F-11D6-BC9E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Subject: [Starkit] TclKit for Mac OS X Aqua - status report Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: There's a first build of TclKit for Apple's Aqua native GUI on Macitosh OS X. This is based on recent Tk sources by Daniel Steffen, Vince Darley, and Jim Ingham: http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/tclkit-macosx-aqua.app.tar.gz Note that this is a 10.2 (Jaguar) build, it won't run on 10.0 or 10.1, for now. Unpack and you end up with a double-clickable "TclKit.app". This includes the same extensions as other tclkit builds, and should run starkits as is (there is no single-file wrap, i.e. starpack, capability yet). There are plenty of gotcha's for now (beyond the fact that Tk itself is work in progress): * dragging doesn't work, you can't drop "wikit.kit" on "TclKit.app" yet * startup is quite different, given that tclkit is not using VFS itself * run from the command line as "./TclKit.app/Contents/MacOS/Wish Shell" I've been thinking a bit on how to deal with the 3 (!) different tclkit builds there are now for the Apple macintosh platform, longer term: * Classic, i.e. OS 7.5.5 .. 9.2.2, for 68k and ppc: remains as is, a "fat" binary, with also separate builds for 68k and ppc, simply to also have smaller packages Will need MacBinary-aware file manip to support starpacks. Also need to support MacBinary unpack for extensions inside. Current build is 8.4.0, but IncrTcl is not yet in the build. I will continue to maintain this build with CodeWarrior 6.3. * XDarwin, i.e. OSX with an XFree86 port, a.k.a. XonX (+ Oroborosx) has been around for some time now, as std unix build display is a bit slow, and not very Mac-like but X11 This build is now easy, and done as all others, using "genkit". Supports all features, starpacks can be created on any system. Current release is 8.4.0, next builds will use gcc 3.1 i.s.o. 2.95. It is very useful, because it supports remote X servers. * Aqua, the latest and greatest, but still a rough diamond for now Builds are based on Daniel Steffen's latest scripts and CVS head Added incrtcl, metakit, tclvfs, zlib, rechan, as normal extensions in the TclKit.app/Contents/lib/ directory. This build is using the OS X way: packaged as application framework, i.e. a dir which *looks* like a file to OSX because of its structure and .app suffix. One idea would be to rename the xdarwin build to "tclkitsh", because it works fine even without X installed, as long as there is no "package require Tk" (which requires an X server, either locally or remotely). Then, the aqua build could be called "tclkit" - with hopefully one day a single-file build which supports apps being packaged as starpack. For the the near future, the above Aqua dir-as-app packaging approach is all there is, so if you want to deploy for Mac OS X Aqua, you can only do so using a separate starkit. Then again, you can of course put everything into a compressed disk image and ship it as a .dmg file. -jcw PS. I've also checked in a few tweaks to critcl to work on osx. From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 13:06:30 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RI6Ta10334 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:06:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:06:42 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jeff Godfrey wrote: > I'm not sure how to tell. I have verified that a "-writable" starkit > works > correctly under these circumstances (WinNT): > > - sdx wrap mykit.kit -writable > - tclkit mykit.kit > - cd mykit.kit > - file copy c:/text.txt . > - [glob *] to verify "text.txt" exists > - exit > > - tclkit mykit.kit > - cd mykit.kit > - [glob *] to verify "text.txt" exists > - exit > > Since, according to JCW, an in-memory copy of the file is created - > which > shows up with [glob *] whether it has been committed or not, how do I > know > if it has been officially committed to the filesystem without exiting > and > restarting the starkit? And if I exit, which automatically commits > the file > changes, how do I know if the 5 second timer committed the change or my > [exit] committed the change? I'm not sure... Should have thought of this before: vfs mount passes flags to Mk4tcl, so you can mount with the "-nocommit" flag. That stops the commit-on-exit. The periodic commit is independent, that timer is started as soon as a change is made (on "open ... w", I think, but it might be done on close - I haven't checked the mk4vfs.tcl logic). -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Sep 27 13:11:07 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RIB7a10692 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:11:07 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA25630 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:11:23 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA02937 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:11:23 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YR4KR; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <3D949F1D.3948884C@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:10:37 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Starkit mailing list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] package require critcl question Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I down loaded critcl from the starkit archive and am trying to run the first example. The first line of the example is "package require critcl" and I realized this is a dilemma because just downloading a starkit doesn't provide a package. Do I have to unpack the critcl starkit and move the appropriate stuff to a location on my search path. Or does tclkit know how to resolve package require commands directly from a starkit? Tom Krehbiel From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 13:34:07 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RIY4a12559; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 13:34:05 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 20:34:16 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] package require critcl question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: Starkit mailing list To: Tom Krehbiel From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <3D949F1D.3948884C@motorola.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: > I down loaded critcl from the starkit archive and am trying to run the > first example. Which example is that? > The first line of the example is "package > require critcl" and I realized this is a dilemma because just > downloading a starkit doesn't provide a package. Do I have to unpack > the critcl starkit and move the appropriate stuff to a location on my > search path. Or does tclkit know how to resolve package require > commands directly from a starkit? Either way works: do "source critcl.kit", and it'll mount and extend auto_path to make all packages inside it available. Or unwrap it and copy the critcl.vfs/lib/critcl/ package to wherever your setup wants it. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Sep 27 14:16:24 2002 Received: from motgate.mot.com (motgate.mot.com [129.188.136.100]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RJG7a15939 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:16:23 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate.mot.com (motgate 2.1) with ESMTP id MAA29108 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:16:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA28537 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:13:24 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YR4P1; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:16:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3D94AE81.C86D1D89@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:16:17 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit mailing list Subject: Re: [Starkit] package require critcl question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, > > I down loaded critcl from the starkit archive and am trying to run the > > first example. > > Which example is that? Tutorial 1 (found in the wikit help) > > The first line of the example is "package > > require critcl" and I realized this is a dilemma because just > > downloading a starkit doesn't provide a package. Do I have to unpack > > the critcl starkit and move the appropriate stuff to a location on my > > search path. Or does tclkit know how to resolve package require > > commands directly from a starkit? > > Either way works: do "source critcl.kit", and it'll mount and extend > auto_path to make all packages inside it available. Or unwrap it and > copy the critcl.vfs/lib/critcl/ package to wherever your setup wants it. There is an undocumented 'pkgIndex' command in sdx. Will it generate and appropreate pkgIndex.tcl for '.kit' files in a directory. This would really be usesful. I could just down load starkit's to a directory, run sdx pkgIndx in the directory and then add the directory to my tclkit path when I start it up. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Fri Sep 27 14:20:58 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RJKra16437 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:20:58 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id MAA00762 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:21:03 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id MAA25830 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:21:03 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YR4PK; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:21:02 -0700 Message-ID: <3D94AF9E.79133006@motorola.com> Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:21:02 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit mailing list Subject: Re: [Starkit] package require critcl question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, > Either way works: do "source critcl.kit", and it'll mount and extend > auto_path to make all packages inside it available. Or unwrap it and > copy the critcl.vfs/lib/critcl/ package to wherever your setup wants it. Bad news, "source critcl.kit" doesn't work because the critcl wikit help is displayed when it is sourced, and when you kill it tclkit exits. bummer. Tom Krehbiel From mark@markroseman.com Fri Sep 27 14:29:11 2002 Received: from fep4.cogeco.net (smtp.cogeco.net [216.221.81.25]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RJTBa17186 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 14:29:11 -0500 Received: from markroseman.com (d141-166-106.home.cgocable.net [24.141.166.106]) by fep4.cogeco.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B6B96D3D for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:29:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:29:38 -0400 Subject: Re: [Starkit] TclKit for Mac OS X Aqua - status report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Mark Roseman To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <37EB5A66-D23F-11D6-BC9E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Message-Id: <76431C82-D24F-11D6-90E4-0003939931E6@markroseman.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > For the the near future, the above Aqua dir-as-app packaging approach > is all there is, so if you want to deploy for Mac OS X Aqua, you can > only do so using a separate starkit. Then again, you can of course > put everything into a compressed disk image and ship it as a .dmg > file. FWIW, with my (non-Tk for now) stuff, I've been taking the approach of building a single-file starpack, and then dropping the result into an application bundle (i.e. into Contents/MacOS subdir of the .app). This certainly has its appeal (though of course with application frameworks and such the need for starpacks is somewhat reduced in general). What do others think of the idea of trying to get to a true single file Tclkit on OS X, accompanied by a script which would take the Tclkit/Starpack and package it into an application bundle? Mark p.s. you can run an app from the command line via e.g. "open TclKit.app" From jcw@equi4.com Fri Sep 27 15:39:40 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RKdZa22508 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:39:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 22:39:43 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] package require critcl question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit mailing list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3D94AF9E.79133006@motorola.com> Message-Id: <4089F57A-D259-11D6-BC9E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: > Bad news, "source critcl.kit" doesn't work because the critcl wikit > help is displayed when it is sourced, and when you kill it tclkit > exits. bummer. Sure you have the latest critcl.kit? It's in http://mini.net/sdarchive/ -jcw From mhankyson@hotmail.com Sat Sep 28 08:39:39 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (f37.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.37]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8SDdda31889 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:39:39 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 06:39:51 -0700 Received: from 203.32.142.5 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:39:50 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.32.142.5] From: "Michael Hankinson" To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 23:39:50 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2002 13:39:51.0823 (UTC) FILETIME=[858981F0:01C266F4] Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I am having the same problem with the 5 second commit on a wrapped version of Tclhttpd on Debian Linux. I used the -writable flag and got a Segmentation fault when I downloaded the first page. I wrapped again with -writable and -nocompress, everything appeared to run perfectly but any changes I made and also any file I uploaded to the webserver were not saved to disk but appeared to be in memory. The starkit size didn't increase at all while the Tclhttpd starkit was running or when I exited. Also I don't think I am stopping Tclhttpd correctly while wrapped in a starkit that's probably why it did not get saved on exit. I use Control C or kill -TERM pid. Regards Michael Jeff Godfrey said: >Thanks for the quick response. So, it seems that the Star*pack* was the >problem, but a Star*kit* should work as expected. I'll try that out. Hey Jeff, I was having some problems with the commit. Could you please let us know what happens when you write to the vfs in a star*kit* - do the changes get saved when you close the file in the vfs, or only after the starkit exits? Thanks a lot. Ro _______________________________________________ starkit mailing list starkit@equi4.com http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com From larry@wildopensource.com Sat Sep 28 13:21:30 2002 Received: from smith-house.org (dsl.smith-house.mv.com [207.22.21.36]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8SILUa09174 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:21:30 -0500 Received: from wildopensource.com (ozma.smith-house.org [207.22.48.146]) by smith-house.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8SHUgN11888 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:30:42 -0400 Message-ID: <3D95F386.D991BC3B@wildopensource.com> Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 14:23:02 -0400 From: Larry Smith Organization: Wild Open Source Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.18-10smp i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8FF224498A745E08F73933D0" Subject: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8FF224498A745E08F73933D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jean-Claude, here's the message per your request. I've also joined the list. regards, -- .-. .-. .---. .---. .-..-. | Wild Open Source Inc. | |__ / | \| |-< | |-< > / | "Making the bazaar just a `----'`-^-'`-'`-'`-'`-' `-' | little more commonplace." home: www.smith-house.org | work: www.wildopensource.com --------------8FF224498A745E08F73933D0 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from trixie.triqs.com (trixie.triqs.com [216.110.36.111]) by smith-house.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RKHZN05932 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:17:35 -0400 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8RL7ga24619; Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:07:48 -0500 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:07:44 +0200 Subject: Re: kitten bug Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Larry Smith From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <3D94C79E.4070401@smith-house.org> Message-Id: <2A83E7DA-D25D-11D6-BC9E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Larry Smith wrote: > I just downloaded the latest starkit "stuff" from equi4.com > and tried the kitten.kit -u updating function. It segfaulted: > > > kitten.kit -u > > May 2002: updating now works, using the latest kitten and tclkit. > For more details, see the http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ home page. > The current update code uses slow MD5 logic, one moment please... > Segmentation fault > > I'm not sure where to even start debugging this. > > uname info: > > uname -a > Linux ozma.smith-house.org 2.4.18-10smp #1 SMP Wed Aug 7 11:17:48 EDT > 2002 i686 unknown > > > cat /etc/redhat-release > Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) > > Are there known issues w/Valhalla? No, I can probably explain - but before I do: would you be willing to resend this to the starkit mailing list? I'd like to get these issues in front of several dozen people - just to make sure we deal with in properly: http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit If not, I'll reply privately - of course. -jcw --------------8FF224498A745E08F73933D0-- From jcw@equi4.com Sat Sep 28 17:24:49 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8SMOma16055 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:24:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:25:05 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <238DE59C-D331-11D6-8657-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Subject: [Starkit] Win32 starpack 1st arg now ok Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: FYI, I've uploaded new tclkit builds to http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/. This fixes a recently reported problem, in which starpacks tried to gobble the first arg as script and then failed. The fix (in src/kitInit.c) was simply to have win32 do the same as unix... doh. Starpacks are not script interpreters, all args are now passed in as $argv. Note that "tclkit blah.tcl" has: $argv0 ==> blah.tcl info nameofexe ==> /tclkit.exe Whereas the same packed up as starpack has: $argv0 ==> /blah.exe/main.tcl info nameofexe ==> /blah.exe -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Sat Sep 28 17:58:34 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8SMwXa17013 for ; Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:58:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:58:51 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3D95F386.D991BC3B@wildopensource.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry Smith wrote: > I just downloaded the latest starkit "stuff" from equi4.com > and tried the kitten.kit -u updating function. It segfaulted: > > > kitten.kit -u > > May 2002: updating now works, using the latest kitten and tclkit. > For more details, see the http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/ home page. > The current update code uses slow MD5 logic, one moment please... > Segmentation fault > > I'm not sure where to even start debugging this. > > uname info: > > uname -a > Linux ozma.smith-house.org 2.4.18-10smp #1 SMP Wed Aug 7 11:17:48 EDT > 2002 i686 unknown > > > cat /etc/redhat-release > Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) > > Are there known issues w/Valhalla? No, I'm not aware of any RH 7.3 problems (thanks for reposting this). The update functionality of starkits was effectively rendered inoperable by the latest switch to "package starkit", which defaults to opening in read-only mode. The solution is to repack kitten.kit in writable mode (but read on first, please): sdx unwrap kitten.kit sdx wrap kitten.kit -writable The self-updating capability of kitten is experimental, essentially just proof of concept - though it used to work. I'm not sure I will continue on precisely this path - since there is a lot more infrastructure to put in place before all this makes sense, which may in turn interfere with others working towards a package repository. Having said that, I'm committed towards providing package collections as starkits, and making them very easy to update. Hm, I can reproduce this bug, even with the -writable starkit, and even in unpacked mode. It looks like I have messed up something pretty badly. I'll look into this. To show you what the idea is, you can do the following to achieve the same results: sdx unwrap kitten.kit cd kitten.vfs sdx httpdist "@http://www.equi4.com/tclkit/kitten.vfs/" cd .. sdx wrap kitten.kit This workaround uses an unpacked tree as you can see - as I said, I'll investigate... There's a reasonably sophisticated syncing-over-http algorithm underneath all this, which may not be quite as clever as rsync, but it still does a decent job (all in plain Tcl). Summary: kitten urgently needs to be revised and updated. And fixed, of course. -jcw From Steve.Cassidy@mq.edu.au Sun Sep 29 05:45:04 2002 Received: from sputnik (c19216.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [210.49.146.52]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8TAj3a08016; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 05:45:03 -0500 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=localhost.localdomain ident=steve) by sputnik with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 17vbYE-0003Si-00; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 20:43:50 +1000 Subject: starkit repository, was Re: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] From: Steve Cassidy To: Jean-Claude Wippler Cc: Starkit list In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 29 Sep 2002 20:43:49 +1000 Message-Id: <1033296230.1917.31.camel@sputnik> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 2002-09-29 at 08:58, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > The self-updating capability of kitten is experimental, essentially > just proof of concept - though it used to work. I'm not sure I will > continue on precisely this path - since there is a lot more > infrastructure to put in place before all this makes sense, which may > in turn interfere with others working towards a package repository. > Having said that, I'm committed towards providing package collections > as starkits, and making them very easy to update. It shouldn't be hard to merge this functionality with CANTCL since what it stores is just what you need. How hard would it be to turn the packages in kitten into the appropriate structure for CANTCL, ie. add DESCRIPTION.txt, put scripts in the tcl directory and any docs in the doc directory. Do you have scripts to generate the kitten packages now? IMHO instead of kitten.kit we should have a 'build your own kitten' application which takes a list of packages, downloads them and starkits them perhaps along with your local files. In fact, this is what I _really_ want CANTCL to be able to do since just now, I have to manually grab tcllib etc to bundle with my app, I want to be able to write a make target (or script) to do it for me. I want the update thing too but I'd be reasonably happy if the granularity was at the package level -- ie, there's a new bwidgets out, grab it and install it in this starpack. Steve From jcw@equi4.com Sun Sep 29 15:16:38 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8TKGca23896 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 15:16:38 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:16:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Win32 starpack 1st arg now ok Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <238DE59C-D331-11D6-8657-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Message-Id: <66E53FE8-D3E8-11D6-A6C5-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sunday, Sep 29, 2002, at 00:25 Europe/Amsterdam, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > FYI, I've uploaded new tclkit builds to > http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/. And thanks to Will Duquette, the new uploads (minutes ago) ought to be right this time around - this required a change to Tk's tkMain.c, now submitted as tk bug #616245. Yesterday's change did fix the logic in tclkitsh (easier/quicker to debug), but I forgot to verify tclkit - and let me add that it's a big ugly hack: the standard startup code first does things wrong, tclkit(sh) then fixes up things after the fact in the TclKit_AppInit code (src/kitInit.c). The current state is that args get passed, never used as script, in starpacks - but that a leading "--" arg still gets eaten up *somewhere* in Tk (probably as it looks for -display). So don't expect a leading "--" arg to get passed through to a starpack :) -jcw From will@wjduquette.com Sun Sep 29 16:24:19 2002 Received: from pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net (pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.122]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8TLOJa25720 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:24:19 -0500 Received: from pool0536.cvx12-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.228.26] helo=notebook.wjduquette.com) by pintail.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17vlYK-0006w0-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 14:24:37 -0700 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020929142000.00a1a660@pop.earthlink.net> X-Sender: wduquet1@pop.earthlink.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 14:22:17 -0700 To: Starkit list From: Will Duquette Subject: Re: [Starkit] Win32 starpack 1st arg now ok In-Reply-To: <66E53FE8-D3E8-11D6-A6C5-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> References: <238DE59C-D331-11D6-8657-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, This time it works just fine! Will At 10:16 PM 9/29/2002 +0200, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: >On Sunday, Sep 29, 2002, at 00:25 Europe/Amsterdam, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > >>FYI, I've uploaded new tclkit builds to http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/. > >And thanks to Will Duquette, the new uploads (minutes ago) ought to be >right this time around - this required a change to Tk's tkMain.c, now >submitted as tk bug #616245. > >Yesterday's change did fix the logic in tclkitsh (easier/quicker to >debug), but I forgot to verify tclkit - and let me add that it's a big >ugly hack: the standard startup code first does things wrong, tclkit(sh) >then fixes up things after the fact in the TclKit_AppInit code (src/kitInit.c). > >The current state is that args get passed, never used as script, in >starpacks - but that a leading "--" arg still gets eaten up *somewhere* in >Tk (probably as it looks for -display). So don't expect a leading "--" >arg to get passed through to a starpack :) > >-jcw > >_______________________________________________ >starkit mailing list >starkit@equi4.com >http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit From jcw@equi4.com Sun Sep 29 16:24:23 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8TLOMa25724 for ; Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:24:22 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 23:24:41 +0200 Subject: Re: starkit repository, was Re: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <1033296230.1917.31.camel@sputnik> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Steve Cassidy wrote: > It shouldn't be hard to merge this functionality with CANTCL since what > it stores is just what you need. How hard would it be to turn the > packages in kitten into the appropriate structure for CANTCL, ie. add > DESCRIPTION.txt, put scripts in the tcl directory and any docs in the > doc directory. Do you have scripts to generate the kitten packages > now? Not hard, I imagine. No scripts, kitten was a quick hack, me throwing in as many builds as I could muster of some longer period of time. > IMHO instead of kitten.kit we should have a 'build your own kitten' > application which takes a list of packages, downloads them and starkits > them perhaps along with your local files. In fact, this is what I > _really_ want CANTCL to be able to do since just now, I have to > manually > grab tcllib etc to bundle with my app, I want to be able to write a > make > target (or script) to do it for me. This is also what the SEAL (Standalone Executable Assembly Line) idea is, which has been floating around for a few years. And what SDarchive wants to move to. I'm not suggesting they should, it looks like now might be a good time to start getting a few people together and discussing The Proper Way Forward (TM). I'm sure Jeff Hobbs also has lots of ideas on where he & ActiveState want to go. > I want the update thing too but I'd be reasonably happy if the > granularity was at the package level -- ie, there's a new bwidgets out, > grab it and install it in this starpack. Yes, though file-level updates would improve on bandwidth, which may quickly become an issue when there is a good sync setup. I use Gentoo Linux on one of my machines, which supports trivial latest-package info updates based on the stunningly efficient rsync, and it was almost predictable that by making it so easy, they were essentially opening floodgates and very very frequent connections. The trick will probably be to find *some* way to balance convenience and central server load (even when mirrored, that just disguises the issue). There has to be some deterrent in doing a check + update, or people will just start setting up 5-minute cron job cycles... As I said, lots of issues to think through - even if many are probably not technical ones. Besides, we don't only want "get latest", we also may want "get latest stable", or get specific version, or even get a specific verified *combination* of package versions. It may well be that the hardest part of a repository is how to deal with meta information (which will probably evolve over time), and how to make The One Right Way (TM) most attractive so people will be gently pushed into playing along with a certain set of conventions. But I fully agree with you that much of the mechanism of actual delivery & packaging can/should probably be done on the fly - there's a model people see, and there's an implementation on the server underneath - two very different things IMO. I just had a look at cantcl, and grabbed cgi1.4.zip as example. Aha, DESCRIPTION.txt, and mime headers. Ok. This is for ready-to-run extensions, right? If there is compiled code involved, you want it supplied as shared lib? Do you enforce a naming structure? Shucks, I can't get to TIP#55, i.e. http://www.tcl.tk right now (nor AS, conn refused), can you elaborate (or point me to some docs/pages)? How do you see the flow of from sources -> how/where to get them -> doing a build -> placing the results into CanTcl -> wrapping things up as starkit or zip? Will it be possible to pick a subset of platforms? Will it be possible to ask for docs / examples / test suites, or in fact ask for them to be left out? Inquiring minds want to know :) - though perhaps this mailing list is not the best spot for such discussions? -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 30 10:20:26 2002 Received: from ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox.mot.com [129.188.136.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8UFKQa03487 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:20:26 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by ftpbox.mot.com (ftpbox 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA27173 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:20:44 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA20270 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:20:44 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRW2L; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:20:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3D986BCB.B76CEB93@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:20:43 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit mailing list Subject: Re: [Starkit] package require critcl question References: <4089F57A-D259-11D6-BC9E-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, > > Bad news, "source critcl.kit" doesn't work because the critcl wikit > > help is displayed when it is sourced, and when you kill it tclkit > > exits. bummer. > > Sure you have the latest critcl.kit? It's in http://mini.net/sdarchive/ Apparently not, when I did a fresh download this morning it worked. Tom Krehbiel From lvirden@cas.org Mon Sep 30 11:40:34 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8UGeXa08826 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:40:33 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g8UGejZ0007263 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g8UGei004714; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:40:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 12:40:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20020930124044.AAB4652@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] In-Reply-To: of Sun, 29 Sep 2002 00:58:51 +0200 To: Starkit list Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: Jean-Claude Wippler > Summary: kitten urgently needs to be revised and updated. And fixed, > of course. Over the past months, particular during the week of the conference, I '''thought''' I had heard people imply that kitten was an experiment whom, perhaps it might be said, has seen its better days and thus it might not be worth spending time updated. On the other hand, until all the infrastructure to dynamically create starkits containing various extensions, kitten is about all we have for use in a 'batteries included' sort of system relating to starkit. I'm wondering what is next with regards to starkits/starpacks/batteries included and so forth. I look at kitten's current contents , as well as comments here on the list, and some of the things I believe are currently in need, if kitten is to continue, include: o correcting the kitten.kit code so that it is usable with the latest tclkit o reorganizing the contents of directories so that binary code all resides within the arch subdirectory o figuring out what is needed for itk to work within the kitten/tclkit framework o updating at the very least the tclxml/tcldom/tclsoap to the latest version. Perhaps there are some other issues as well - for instance, I see two itcl directories in kitten. I see md5.tcl as well as some .so files at the same level as the other extension directories. Are there other issues that need to be resolved? -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Sep 30 13:40:28 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g8UIeSa15593 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 13:40:28 -0500 Received: [from pobox3.mot.com (pobox3.mot.com [10.64.251.242]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id LAA26018 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:38:32 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox3.mot.com (MOT-pobox3 2.0) with ESMTP id LAA02521 for ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:37:49 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YRXBJ; Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:40:46 -0700 Message-ID: <3D989AAE.A8D62CFF@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:40:46 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Starkit list Subject: Re: [Starkit] [Fwd: kitten bug] References: <20020930124044.AAB4652@cas.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry, Maybe it is just me but I think the original kitten concept is broken because it lacks symmetry with the rest of the starkit concept. Let me explain what I mean. 1) It seems reasonable that extension developers would develop starkit's for there extensions. This means that packages like tclxml/tcldom/tclsoap etc. would exist and be updated as starkits. 2) Given that number (1) is likely to occur then a kitten package should just be a wrapping of the starkits which results in a directory structure that looks something like this: kitten/ kitten/lib/ kitten/lib/pkgIndex.tcl kitten/lib/tclxml.kit kitten/lib/tcldom.kit kitten/lib/tclsoap.kit kitten/lib/<...>.kit The only problem that needs to be solved for the above (that I'm aware of) is the generation of the pkgIndex.tcl file. The pre-wrapped '.kit' files should be able to be sourced from the pkgIndex.tcl file. 3) Advantages to the above approach are: * Maintenance of a kitten archive becomes trivial. When a new version of a package is released all that needs to be done is to download the new version of the package from the starkit distribution archive and replace the old version with the new version in kitten. * Issues associated with platform specific code are left to the individual package developers, although it would of course be most convenient to follow the starkit guidelines. * At development time a developer can place kitten in the auto_path and let the code evolve to uses whatever packages are necessary. When it comes time to distribute the code all that needs to be done is put a copy of the starkit's that were uses in the the .vfs/lib directory and update the pkgIndex.tcl. This symmetry will help eliminate surprises when the developer creates a distribution. Tom Krehbiel > From: Jean-Claude Wippler > > > Summary: kitten urgently needs to be revised and updated. And fixed, > > of course. > > Over the past months, particular during the week of the conference, I > '''thought''' I had heard people imply that kitten was an experiment > whom, perhaps it might be said, has seen its better days and thus it > might not be worth spending time updated. > > On the other hand, until all the infrastructure to dynamically create > starkits containing various extensions, kitten is about all we have for > use in a 'batteries included' sort of system relating to starkit. > > I'm wondering what is next with regards to starkits/starpacks/batteries > included and so forth. > > I look at kitten's current contents , as well as comments here on the list, > and some of the things I believe are currently in need, if kitten is to > continue, include: > > o correcting the kitten.kit code so that it is usable with the latest > tclkit > > o reorganizing the contents of directories so that binary code > all resides within the arch subdirectory > > o figuring out what is needed for itk to work within the kitten/tclkit > framework > > o updating at the very least the tclxml/tcldom/tclsoap to the latest > version. > > Perhaps there are some other issues as well - for instance, I see two > itcl directories in kitten. I see md5.tcl as well as some .so files > at the same level as the other extension directories. > > Are there other issues that need to be resolved? From jcw@equi4.com Tue Oct 1 02:24:27 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g917OQa15099; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 02:24:27 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:24:46 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: Starkit list To: "Ubhay Kumar" From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <205C5F16CA92F94484F054E94520F4D709AF62@mail.in.firstrain.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Subject: [Starkit] Re: [Metakit] Re: Metakit concurrency urgent Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tuesday, Oct 1, 2002, at 09:06 Europe/Amsterdam, Ubhay Kumar wrote: > Hi Jean... > Thanx for the reply ... but i still have some doubts ... >> >>> If answer to above is true, will that mean, even >> synchronizing the >>> "write" access using some locks (mutex etc) >>> between t1 and t2 would not suffice. >> >> Yes - because the write would be ok, but read access would not be safe >> while such writes are taking place. >> > First let me explain what is my requirement: > > I want to have a pool of worker threads, where each thread can > "read/write" the > same datafile. The datafile would be opened/created only once by a > thread in the pool > (As we assume that opening and closing for each "read/write" will be > expensive) in a global scope > so that every other worker thread can use it. > > 1. Can i achieve this by synchronizing ALL "read"/"write" access (by > using some application level lock) > between worker threads, i.e, ensuring no TWO threads read or write > simultaneously on a datafile? > As you said above "synchronized writes are ok" then synchronized > "read/write" should also be ok. Yes. > 2. If the answer to above is "Yes" then i have a confusion: > >> 1. Is it true, that, in a multithreaded application if thread t1 >> "created/opened" >> a database then ONLY t1 can "modify/update" the database. All other >> threads (like >> t2) needs to send request to t1 for any "modification/update". > >>> Yes. > > What does the above mean if answer to question 1 is true. > Because here it is clearly stated that only thread which can write on > the > database is the "creater/opener" thread of the datafile? With a monolithic (app-level) lock, it does not matter. Without locking the above applies. > Thanx again in advance, > Regrads, > Ubhay. -jcw From mjacobson@northropgrumman.com Tue Oct 1 09:13:34 2002 Received: from xcgmd811.northgrum.com (xcgmd811.northgrum.com [155.104.240.101]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91EDYa03456 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:13:34 -0500 Received: by xcgmd811.northgrum.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:10:30 -0700 Message-ID: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E59@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> From: "Jacobson, Michael P." To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 07:07:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have been using the lastest Starkit layout (based on Steve's paper) with the lastest sdx generated main.tcl. First, I usually develop and debug an application with wish. Then I wrap the application for use/distribution as a starkit or starpack. I like to do this without changing any code in my application. Currently, the main.tcl that us generated by sdx qwrap looks this this: ### main.tcl package require starkit starkit::startup package require app-name ### When you run this outside of a starkit it gives you a error that "starkit package not found". I realize that main.tcl is for the generic case and meant to only run in the starkit. But this is easy to fix so that the default main.tcl will work either way. My slightly modified main.tcl is below both starkit and wish environments without change. ### main.tcl if {![catch {package require starkit}]} { starkit::startup if {[catch {cd $argv0}]} { cd [file dirname $argv0] } ;# your pwd is now set to the directory were the kit resides } else { lappend auto_path [file join [file dirname [info script]] lib] ;# case where you are running with wish } package require app-name ### Any thoughts on something like this become a standard feature of the qwrap generated main.tcl. Michael Jacobson From jcw@equi4.com Tue Oct 1 09:39:18 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91EdHa05315 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 09:39:17 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:39:37 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E59@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> Message-Id: <9C0EDE84-D54B-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jacobson, Michael P. wrote: > First, I usually develop and debug an application with wish. Then I > wrap > the application for use/distribution as a starkit or starpack. [...] > When you run this outside of a starkit it gives you a error that > "starkit > package not found". [...] > if {![catch {package require starkit}]} { [...] I've been trying hard to simplify main.tcl, so that different uses (and there are quite a few by now) can be dealt with in a single location: package starkit. That lets us evolve/improve things once, instead of in each individual starkit. It may not have been mentioned before, but the starkit package is in tclvfs on SourceForge. Things are not quite perfect yet w.r.t tclvfs packaging, but my goal is to allow it to work fully independent of tclkit - it already does, but also to support starkits without tclkit. This means a number of packages need to be in place, but the mix will vary depending on whether things are stored wrapped or in a dir tree, zipped vs. metakit, etc. So "package require starkit" is not just a way to make them work wrapped, but also a way to introduce conventions - such as auto_path ./lib, and documentation, and eventually examples, test suites, etc. One good example is platform naming: $tcl_platform holds all sorts of info, but they are not quite suited to build file paths with (win NT vs 98, etc). For packages to easily work when a number of shared lib builds are present, one needs code to disambiguate, as CriTcl does. It might be a good choice to put such logic in the starkit package. There really is much more to deal with, and I *sure* don't have all the answers, but again - instead of copying logic to each starkit, I'd be inclined to try to place such policy issues in the "starkit" package. There will be yet more deployment scenario's once we get to web-cgi type uses, and the plug-in, and... How about pushing forward a bit with tclvfs, to make sure it works for everyone, simply by adding it to their own tclsh/wish setup? In fact, Jeff Hobbs has recently completely re-done the build system of tclvfs (now TEA2), so it seems to me that we really are getting very close to that point. FWIW, recent tclkit-for-mac-osx-aqua builds have helped clear up a few more issues with running starkits when the executable itself isn't one. I agree with you that one key point of starkits is that one must be able to develop them in unpacked mode, and then wrap them up with absolutely no change - and with absolutely minimal impact on their operation. This is central to simplifying deployment. -jcw From mjacobson@northropgrumman.com Tue Oct 1 10:22:33 2002 Received: from xcgtx811.northgrum.com (xcgtx811.northgrum.com [208.20.220.57]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91FMXa08384 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:22:33 -0500 Received: by xcgtx811.northgrum.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:17:24 -0700 Message-ID: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E5B@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> From: "Jacobson, Michael P." To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: RE: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:14:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Does this mean that in the future that "starkit" will be a core Tcl package? Or do I have to install some form of it when I want to run the script in wish. If not how do we accomplish having "to develop them in unpacked mode, and then wrap them up with absolutely no change". Sorry if it sounds like I and missing the boat but its still a little fuzzy to me. Michael Jacobson From jcw@equi4.com Tue Oct 1 10:50:06 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91Fo5a10416; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 10:50:06 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:50:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: "'starkit@equi4.com'" To: "Jacobson, Michael P." From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <939BE12B0744D211BD5A00A0C9DA3D8708CE1E5B@xcgmd009.md.essd.northgrum.com> Message-Id: <80092EDA-D555-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael, > Does this mean that in the future that "starkit" will be a core Tcl > package? > Or do I have to install some form of it when I want to run the script > in > wish. I would hope that tclvfs becomes a core package, but it's not my call. It's not even my call whether tclvfs becomes part of ActiveTcl, but from what I hear this is definitely being considered - perhaps Jeff or Andreas can elaborate on this. My thought was that you will normally install tclvfs. If that is not an option, then there would be a fallback option to install just the pure-tcl starkit package. That is enough to develop with main.tcl as it is today. In fact, considering that there are also a pure-tcl "fake" implementations of vfs and metakit (readkit, i.e. read-only), my hope is that the pieces can be combined in such ways that all useful scenario's can be covered. Btw, if main.tcl is not suitable as is, have you considered adding a main2.tcl next to it which avoid the package require starkit call? As I described, I think this will ultimately not be a good solution, once the starkit package contains things you want to use as well. But it's a quick way out for now. > If not how do we accomplish having "to develop them in unpacked mode, > and > then wrap them up with absolutely no change". Wrapping up requires tclkit of course (or m4tcl and zlib and rechan, as individual packages). Let me make sure I don't confuse you further - there are different was to work with starpacks: - run unwrapped (also develop), needs just "package require starkit" - running wrapped, needs starkit, tclvfs, mk4tcl, zlib or trf,rechan or trf - running wrapped will one day be possible with activetcl, I hope - running wrapped may even become possible with readkit + zlib + rechan - unwrapping a starkit requires either tclkit or the tclvfs/mk4tcl/etc mix above - alternately, can unwrap in pure tcl using readkit (needs zlib/trf, or an unzip cmd) - creating a starkit require either tclkit or the tclvfs/mk4tcl/etc mix above There are probably silly mistakes (all mine) in the above, but that's the general idea anyway. Once one or more of the above packages make it into "the" core, or even first into activetcl, things will start to become much easier to use. We're getting there IMO... but gradually! -jcw From dgporter@erols.com Tue Oct 1 11:09:46 2002 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91G9ka11856; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:09:46 -0500 X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVaGruC54SGRKCpJ0O/ASa0NSZUyAKG1YhDWRJOx3XPHwZpAiNQEKWhKQHUq9jhdaoU= Received: from hamming.cam.nist.gov ([129.6.88.137] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17wPb3-0002Gx-00; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:10:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3D99C8DB.7070401@erols.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:10:03 -0400 From: Donald G Porter Reply-To: dgporter@erols.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020719 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: "Jacobson, Michael P." , "'starkit@equi4.com'" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl References: <80092EDA-D555-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >> Does this mean that in the future that "starkit" will be a core Tcl >> package? > I would hope that tclvfs becomes a core package, but it's not my call. Forgive the intrusion, but I think you guys are talking past each other and bringing up issues that don't really matter. As I understand the starkit packaging philosophy; one wants to package up a system that is an exact copy of what exists in development, so there are no surprises arising from the "installed" version of an application being different in subtle ways from the version the developer works on and tests. Everybody sees the same thing. Given that, I think it's a mistake to be using the wish application to do development. The "installed" starkit is going to have tclkit as its execution engine, not wish, so do your development with tclkit. As I understand it, the standard main.tcl script in a starkit is very simple: package require starkit starkit::startup package require app-name ;# (Yuck! on that last line :-)) and Michael was proposing something much more complex just because he has the "starkit" package installed in ./lib and not in a directory on the auto_path for wish. The simple solution is to be sure to use tclkit instead of wish for development, and make sure that tclkit adds the directory ./lib to its auto_path. I think that takes care of things, and it has nothing to do with what packages are part of what distributions. If I'm way off base let me know. -- | Don Porter Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division | | donald.porter@nist.gov Information Technology Laboratory | | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/ NIST | |______________________________________________________________________| ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From jcw@equi4.com Tue Oct 1 11:22:56 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91GMua12949 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:22:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:23:15 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3D99C8DB.7070401@erols.com> Message-Id: <166037D0-D55A-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Don, > package require starkit > starkit::startup Actually, the preferred incantation is now: if {[starkit::startup] == "sourced"} return > package require app-name ;# (Yuck! on that last line :-)) Just like a C string point is called "main" and lives in a source file just as everything else, so it is with this starkit layout - everything is a package, one of the packages happens to be the one that gets launched first. It has a distinctive name to be allow combining apps. If your objection is the fact that "package require" starts actual work, I agree that "app-name::start" or some such ought to have been added. Then again, one could argue that apps do little more than set up definitions and bindings, and events drive the real work. Oh well, whatever. > I think that takes care of things, and it has nothing to do with what > packages are part of what distributions. Correct :) I was taking advantage of this opportunity to paint a picture of things ahead... -jcw From dgporter@erols.com Tue Oct 1 11:37:34 2002 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.60]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91GbXa14139; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:37:33 -0500 X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYl6XCvqCMlUgC8WQIGtiSn4G0JXxyJ0dIl3WKgPTJqLEcaXkJBxeU/zq/oZnczOKw= Received: from hamming.cam.nist.gov ([129.6.88.137] helo=erols.com) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17wQ1x-0006Uf-00; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:37:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3D99CF5C.8050807@erols.com> Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 12:37:48 -0400 From: Donald G Porter Reply-To: dgporter@erols.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020719 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: Starkit list Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl References: <166037D0-D55A-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: >> package require app-name ;# (Yuck! on that last line :-)) Shouldn't have started it; can't completely finish the discussion now. > Just like a C string point is called "main" and lives in a source file > just as everything else, so it is with this starkit layout - everything ^^^^^^^^^ > is a package, one of the packages happens to be the one that gets ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > launched first. It has a distinctive name to be allow combining apps. Nonsense. The very fact that you've given these app "packages" distinctive names shows that you recognize they are something other than real packages. Why not just have the last line be: source ./bin/app.tcl (or whatever the appropriate relative path should be) rather than abuse [package require]? What important thing do you think [package require] is doing for you? Just providing a search path? -- | Don Porter Mathematical and Computational Sciences Division | | donald.porter@nist.gov Information Technology Laboratory | | http://math.nist.gov/~DPorter/ NIST | |______________________________________________________________________| ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# ##### ##### ##### ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# From cferril@mchsi.com Tue Oct 1 18:59:02 2002 Received: from sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (sccmmhc01.mchsi.com [204.127.203.183]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g91Nx1a06299 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:59:02 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc01.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021001235917.LCBY3589.sccmmhc01.mchsi.com@suse80> for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:59:17 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chuck Ferril To: Starkit list Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:07:34 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 References: <166037D0-D55A-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> <3D99CF5C.8050807@erols.com> In-Reply-To: <3D99CF5C.8050807@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200210011907.34818.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g91Nx1a06299 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: All, I'd like to share my experience on the package application stuff... > Why not just have the last line be: > > source ./bin/app.tcl Like you; I had the same reaction to the 'package require app-example'...but now I really like the package approach. I'll describe how I am using it and the why I've grown to like it. I have built a simple web based application creator that makes StarPacks from a library of packages. I can specify what applications I want in the StarPack (choosing from a list of app-* packages) and libraries (all other packages) and it gets the latest version from cvs and wraps them up for me and sends it back to the browser. This is simply a tool I put together to give me StarPacks; all in one applications for delivery to customers for my company...although, I think others may be interested in it too. Anyway, by using packages for applications, I can request several of them to be wrapped up in the same StarPack. With a simple change to my startup (main.tcl); I check to see if there is an app-* that matches the name of my binary; and then simply requests that package. For example: if the binary was renamed to 'foobar' (or foobar.exe on Windows), the package app-foobar would be required. If there was no app-foobar package; my code would display a list of all application avaliable in the StarPack (app-* packages) for the user to select from. (this is a great easter-egg for our sales folks, renaming our apps to tetris or whatever; also great for debugging :-) This type of thing would be very difficult to do with a list of .tcl files to look at. This is probably a fairly silly contraption; but it has saved me a great deal of time; both from not having to build releases for others, as well as giving me a handy set of 'packages' to choose from...both libraries and applications to easily pull from. All this runs on a Linux server, building Linux and Windows StarPacks, and controls a MacOSX system that builds the MacOSXAqua StarPacks into virtual drives (.dmg files) for easy delivery. The main thing is that my StarPacks are truly static (main.tcl, AppMain.tcl and all), I simply wrap packages; libraries and applications, to get the desired functionality. Sorry to ramble on so much; the point was that the app-example package may not be such a bad idea...at least not in my experience. It is very convenient to be able to pick up a package (that is an application) and move it into another project without having to find all the parts to go with it. Chuck From akupries@shaw.ca Tue Oct 1 22:04:01 2002 Received: from pd4mo2so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g92340a13627 for ; Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:04:01 -0500 Received: from pd5mr1so.prod.shaw.ca (pd5mr1so-qfe3.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.232]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3C00IAK373D6@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml5so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml5so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.149]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3C0044N3736C@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bluepeak (h24-78-89-27.vc.shawcable.net [24.78.89.27]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with SMTP id <0H3C00LKU372C3@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 21:04:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=shaw.ca) by bluepeak with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17wZcP-0002Qv-00 for ; Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:52:09 -0700 Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:52:08 -0700 From: Andreas Kupries Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl In-reply-to: Message from Jean-Claude Wippler "of Tue, 01 Oct 2002 16:39:37 +0200." <9C0EDE84-D54B-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> To: "'starkit@equi4.com'" Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 (debian 2.5-1) with nmh-1.0.4+dev Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT References: <9C0EDE84-D54B-11D6-B063-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Jacobson, Michael P. wrote: > > It may not have been mentioned before, but the starkit package is in > tclvfs on SourceForge. > How about pushing forward a bit with tclvfs, to make sure it works for > everyone, simply by adding it to their own tclsh/wish setup? In fact, > Jeff Hobbs has recently completely re-done the build system of tclvfs > (now TEA2), so it seems to me that we really are getting very close to > that point. FWIW, recent tclkit-for-mac-osx-aqua builds have helped > clear up a few more issues with running starkits when the executable > itself isn't one. Just a note: The tclvfs CVS head currently builds on all platforms (and variants) I have available to me here at ActiveState. Which are Linux/ix86, Linux/IA-64, Solaris/Sparc, Solaris/Sparc 2.8, FreeBSD/ix86, Aix/PowerPC, Win32/ix86, HPUX/PA-RISC, HPUX/IA-64 (This does not include Metakit. For several platforms I have to figure how to get the C++ compiler to work. Jean-Claude gave me some hints, but I wasn't able to act on them yet (2/3 of today was spent on installing software on the new windows workstation I got. The remainder I squished stupid oversights of mine in the TEA 2 for tkhtml, tbcload, and trf. Metakit is scheduled for tomorrow :). -- So long, Andreas Kupries Developer @ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cferril@mchsi.com Wed Oct 2 10:26:42 2002 Received: from sccmmhc02.mchsi.com (sccmmhc02.mchsi.com [204.127.203.184]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g92FQga23583; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:26:42 -0500 Received: from suse80 ([12.218.3.140]) by sccmmhc02.mchsi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20021002152657.SMOS7903.sccmmhc02.mchsi.com@suse80>; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 15:26:57 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Chuck Ferril To: Jean-Claude Wippler , Starkit Subject: Re: [Starkit] Sdx qwrap generated main.tcl Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:35:22 -0500 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.2 References: <0E5243BA-D5FA-11D6-B29D-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> In-Reply-To: <0E5243BA-D5FA-11D6-B29D-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200210021035.22555.cferril@mchsi.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by trixie.triqs.com id g92FQga23583 Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello, > FWIW, one plan Steve and I have been discussing for some time, is to > provide an effective central clearing-house for getting extensions, > renaming sdarchive to "Starchive" once we reach a decent stage. This > can remain quite independent of *where* files actually reside, IMO - > with as option for companies to use the same toolset for in-house > packaging/deployment scenario's. Excellent idea. I have wanted to set up a 'critcl farm' that takes a StarKit with critcl code in it and returns the same but with some specified platform binary builds in it; in my case, Linux, Windows and MacOSX. It would be great to be able to request a StarKit from a central place and get back one that includes the binaries for your platform or maybe a selection of platforms. > You seem to have addressed a great number of issues already, so I'm > wondering to what extent you would be willing (and allowed) to share > what you have set up. With a bit of luck we may just find out that > many independent initiatives are going to fit really well together. I fully plan to share all of my work once it gets a bit more mature; that and I get past a development effort that is in high gear right now for the next month or so. > Note that there are some 2 dozen tclkit builds (also > included on the Tcl/Tk 2002 conference CD), more than have ever been > available before. So the pieces are there to let people deploy for > lots of architectures. My system has a 'runtimes' directory that houses the TclKits for the platforms to build for. MacOSX is my only special case since I had to tweak some stuff. For now, I only need Linux, Windows, and MacOSX, but I can simply add another TclKit runtime to the directory and it magically gets used along with the others. > It's great to see that you've automated the OS X side of things (I am > moving much of my own work to OS X these days). Hopefully, OS X will > one day also be a system we can generate for from Linux or Win32 - > since that is where most people will be coming from. ...and what fun that was... :-) I tried soooooo hard to build the OSX runtime on my Linux server. I was pretty close, but I don't have the time to continue that effort. I'm not a Mac user myself; but the company I work for is in the graphics arts industry and so most of the company and our clients are Mac users. We have a couple of really great Mac programmers; but they are still a little skeptical of Tcl as an application level development platform...but I think I'm showing it's power. One of our main applications is written in Tcl and has proven to be very solid and flexible; even editing 200 meg images (although I did have to write a few extentions that I may be able to release as critcl/starkits someday). I would be very happy to provide whatever I've learned about building self contained Tcl applications to whomever is willing to listen; or can actually stand to listen to me (as the case may be :-) Up until now I have been using a version of mktclapp that I modified to wrap our applications for Windows and Mac OS-9 platforms; but it's StarPacks from now on! As I said above; I am now in a really tight development schedule (so, what's new) and will have only have bits of time here and there for the next couple of months. Some of the issues I have to work out yet in my system are related to automating critcl and some sort of 'obfuscation' of the source code. Chuck From clif@clif.cflynt.com Wed Oct 2 23:26:29 2002 Received: from ic.net (relay084.ic.net [152.160.8.94]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g934QTa05429 for ; Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:26:29 -0500 Received: (qmail 38448 invoked by uid 0); 3 Oct 2002 04:32:37 -0000 Received: from noucorp.com.12.160.152.in-addr.arpa (HELO bastion.noucorp.com) (152.160.12.213) by dialin.netrek.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 2002 04:32:37 -0000 Received: from clif.cflynt.com (clif.cflynt.com [192.168.9.2]) by bastion.noucorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA09978 for ; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:26:47 -0400 Received: (from clif@localhost) by clif.cflynt.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g934Qlj29827 for starkit@equi4.com; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:26:47 -0400 From: Clif Flynt Message-Id: <200210030426.g934Qlj29827@clif.cflynt.com> To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:26:47 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Chuck Ferril" at Oct 02, 2002 10:35:22 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL6] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Packages, automated builds, etc Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, While this is not the charter for this mailing list, this is where a discussion started... Don Porter and I have been exchanging mail, mostly with me describing what I want to be able to do in package. For example, the package command is currently an organizing command (to group sets of files into a package with 'package provide'), and a script loading command (with 'package require'). Our final conclusion is that the 'package' command is too many different things to too many people, and there should be a new command to do some of this stuff. This is currently a 'module' command. I'm thinking that we may want several new commands or 'packages' to do things like: Update my .c and .h code files. Update my .tcl files. Build extensions (or make package index files). Load a module from disk (as with current 'package require'). Load a module from a remote site. Load a module from a vfs file. If anyone wants to help assemble a wish list, I'll be happy to start collecting them. If there's already a wiki page discussing this, let me know, and I'll add information there. (I didn't find one in my quick scan of the Wiki.) Clif ........................... Clif Flynt .......................... ... Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide - Academic Press Professional ... --- Available March 2003 --- .... http://www.cflynt.com ............ clif@cflynt.com .... . In theory there is no difference between theory and practice . ........................ In practice, there is. ................. From jcw@equi4.com Thu Oct 3 06:07:15 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g93B7Ea27600; Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:07:14 -0500 Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:07:36 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Packages, automated builds, etc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: Clif Flynt From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <200210030426.g934Qlj29827@clif.cflynt.com> Message-Id: <52E1987C-D6C0-11D6-B29D-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Clif Flynt wrote: > While this is not the charter for this mailing list, this is where a > discussion started... Which was probably not a good idea.. (too many non-starkit/-tclkit aspects) [...] > If there's already a wiki page discussing this, let me know, > and I'll add information there. (I didn't find one in my quick scan > of the Wiki.) I'd say create one. These discussions tend to just re-iterate opinions, which is not helping us getting much further, I'm afraid. With a wiki page, one can collect, list, summarize, reflect, and erase... Personally, I think packages, source files, namespaces, arrays, directories, scopes are all nothing but One Big Misguided Plot To Drive Us Crazy (TM) ... :) -jcw From albrecht_mucha@web.de Fri Oct 4 06:59:38 2002 Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp01.web.de [194.45.170.210]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g94Bxca07818 for ; Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:59:38 -0500 Received: from [80.134.4.241] (helo=linux) by smtp.web.de with smtp (WEB.DE(Exim) 4.75 #2) id 17xR7a-0004s9-00 for starkit@equi4.com; Fri, 04 Oct 2002 13:59:54 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: A Mucha To: starkit@equi4.com Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 14:10:09 +0200 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <02100414100900.07445@linux> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: [Starkit] problem with delete Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Jean-Claude Thanks for metakit and starpack. This Every Thing In One Place approach will make it much easyer to distribute programs. While playing around with metakit I got a question: How do I _best_ delete a specific selection of rows? my first try : mk::file open db test.mk mk::view layout db.test {file size} for {set n 0 } {$n < 10} {incr n} { mk::row append db.test file file$n size $n } mk::set db.test!5000 size -1 mk::file commit db puts "there are [mk::view size db.test] rows" foreach i [mk::select db.test -exact file ""] { mk::row delete db.test!$i } brings the folloing error: there are 5011 rows view index is out of range while executing "mk::row delete db.test!$i" ("foreach" body line 2) invoked from within "foreach i [mk::select db.test -exact file ""] { mk::row delete db.test!$i } " (file "t1.tcl" line 9) should i sort the list descending and so start deleting at the end? this immediate deleting (with freeing the rows) before a commit surprised me a bit. It would be best to show the solution in the examples of mk::row delete in http://www.equi4.com/metakit/tcl.html Thanks Albrecht Mucha * Bad Salzdetfurth * Germany From jcw@equi4.com Sun Oct 6 14:02:28 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g96J2La16494; Sun, 6 Oct 2002 14:02:22 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:02:45 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] problem with delete Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: A Mucha From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <02100414100900.07445@linux> Message-Id: <32B467BB-D95E-11D6-B815-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: A Mucha wrote: > Thanks for metakit and starpack. This Every Thing In One Place > approach will > make it much easyer to distribute programs. Glad you like it - I agree! > While playing around with metakit I got a question: > How do I _best_ delete a specific selection of rows? [...] > foreach i [mk::select db.test -exact file ""] { > mk::row delete db.test!$i > } > brings the folloing error: > > there are 5011 rows > view index is out of range [...] Yes, views are like lists - delete an item and the next ones will move down. > should i sort the list descending and so start deleting at the end? Exactly, probably something like: foreach i [lsort -integer -decreasing [mk::select ...]] { ... } > It would be best to show the solution in the examples of mk::row delete > in http://www.equi4.com/metakit/tcl.html Good point. Another item for my bulging todo list... :( -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Mon Oct 7 09:50:53 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97Eoqa22644 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:50:52 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:51:20 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <3DD33C18-DA04-11D6-8313-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Subject: [Starkit] win32 crash-on-exit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Could someone who has been seeing consistent crash-on-exit problems with tclkit do a quick to see whether the latest builds are an imporvment? The new code is at: http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ A bug was fixed in the "rechan" extension which caused it to crash with files open in VFS - this is a general enough change that it may well have been at the root of other issues, such as this one. -jcw From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Mon Oct 7 16:20:48 2002 Received: from dallas.jhuapl.edu (dallas.jhuapl.edu [128.244.197.22]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97LKma20741 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:20:48 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) id <0H3M00D01RB333@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 17:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by dallas.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40039) with ESMTP id <0H3M003MTRAXUU@dallas.jhuapl.edu> for starkit@equi4.com; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:21:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g97LKvY19697 for ; Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:20:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 17:20:57 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu X-Sender: jhz@aplexus.jhuapl.edu To: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: aplexus.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Subject: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I have had a problem with tclkit for linux when running on an SGI computer with Redhat linux. It seems to run fine, but then when I exit it hangs, and leaves processes that can't be killed without rebooting. I just downloaded a new tclkit from equi4 and the behavior is the same as the older ones: jhz[\H:(~)]8: ./tclkit-linux-x86 % exit At this point I can't ctrl-c or ctrl-z. Here's a process list, with several old processes hanging around from months ago: jhz[\H:(~)]3: all jhz 17454 1 0 Aug12 ? 00:00:00 [tclkit-linux-x8] jhz 17484 1 0 Aug12 ? 00:00:00 [tclkit-linux-x8] jhz 17521 1 0 Aug12 ? 00:00:00 [tclkit] jhz 20636 1 0 Aug23 ? 00:00:00 [3] jhz 21486 1 0 Aug23 ? 00:00:00 [3] jhz 14526 1 0 Sep11 ? 00:00:00 [bash] jhz 14545 14526 0 Sep11 ? 00:00:00 [hello] jhz 5386 1 0 17:11 ? 00:00:00 -bash jhz 5412 5386 0 17:12 ? 00:00:00 ./tclkit-linux-x86 root 5417 5416 0 17:15 pts/5 00:00:00 login -- jhz jhz 5418 5417 0 17:15 pts/5 00:00:00 -bash jhz 5441 5418 0 17:17 pts/5 00:00:00 ps -Af jhz 5442 5418 0 17:17 pts/5 00:00:00 -bash Can't kill -9 either. Any ideas? ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From jcw@equi4.com Mon Oct 7 16:48:48 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97Lmla22308; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:48:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:49:15 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: MetaKit mailing list To: Starkit list From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <9F8A5256-DA3E-11D6-8313-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu wrote: > I have had a problem with tclkit for linux when running on an SGI > computer > with Redhat linux. It seems to run fine, but then when I exit it hangs, > and leaves processes that can't be killed without rebooting. I just > downloaded a new tclkit from equi4 and the behavior is the same as the > older ones: > > jhz[\H:(~)]8: ./tclkit-linux-x86 > % exit > > At this point I can't ctrl-c or ctrl-z. [...] > Can't kill -9 either. Ouch, that is a major bug. You're not the first one to run into it, nor is it limited to Linux. First let's get this straight: a user-mode program which causes the OS to leave it in an uniterruptable state is an *OS* bug. So the most *accurate* advice I can give is: report this as a major bug to your OS vendor, RedHat in this case. I cannot repeat this enough: a user-mode program, not using any root permissions, and doing nothing but publicly documented system calls, should not be able to cause this. If I had mischief in mind, I could probably use this flaw as DOS-attack: just launch processes forever, each hitting this OS bug... Unfortunately, this all comes down to the simple fact that MK is triggering a serious bug on three different OS'es so far (RH, HPUX, OSX), so I have no option other than try and find a workaround. The world is too big, wheels turn too slowly, and MK is not likely to make anyone change things - even when a reproducible hard bug like this proves them to be causing it. Sigh... Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and also: what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? With a bit of luck, your hang may be one I can reproduce - *then* I can start digging in. -jcw PS. FWIW, the problem seems to be related to having a datafile open, writing to it, even extending it at times, while there is a mmap on it (which is R/O) and with some of the writes using pointers into that map as data. With page-size allocations, a write to a page using data from that same page (never overlapping) may well mightily confuse an imperfect OS, as it tries to copy-on-write perhaps, page-faulting with a lock pending on the write while the read is in use. Whatever. I may even try to create a small example in an attempt to force OS vendors to fix this after all... But first, I need a setup to reproduce this behavior. As if there isn't enough work... :) From Murat_Berk@bmc.com Mon Oct 7 16:58:41 2002 Received: from creeper.bmc.com (firebird.bmc.com [198.207.223.228]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97Lwfa22808; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:58:41 -0500 Received: from ec02-hou.bmc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by creeper.bmc.com (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g97LvbH15902; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:57:37 -0500 (CDT) Received: by ec02-hou.bmc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:57:51 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Berk, Murat" To: "'Jean-Claude Wippler'" , Starkit list Cc: MetaKit mailing list Subject: RE: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavio r Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:57:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Is the data on NFS mounted directories? We used to have this kind of problems also where we build some databases as part of build process into NFS. Some memory access patterns was causing big problems to us between Auspex NFS server and Solaris workstations (Solaris NFS server was OK) THen we had similar problems on other ones. (we used to go infinite loop and take 100% on the build machine the whole night) I think mmap across nfs was creating some problems which we never saw under very heavy load using local databases. This might be totally unrelated. I hope the above will be helpfull as a datapoint for this kind of issues... Murat -----Original Message----- From: Jean-Claude Wippler [mailto:jcw@equi4.com] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 5:49 PM To: Starkit list Cc: MetaKit mailing list Subject: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior john_zouck@jhuapl.edu wrote: > I have had a problem with tclkit for linux when running on an SGI > computer > with Redhat linux. It seems to run fine, but then when I exit it hangs, > and leaves processes that can't be killed without rebooting. I just > downloaded a new tclkit from equi4 and the behavior is the same as the > older ones: > > jhz[\H:(~)]8: ./tclkit-linux-x86 > % exit > > At this point I can't ctrl-c or ctrl-z. [...] > Can't kill -9 either. Ouch, that is a major bug. You're not the first one to run into it, nor is it limited to Linux. First let's get this straight: a user-mode program which causes the OS to leave it in an uniterruptable state is an *OS* bug. So the most *accurate* advice I can give is: report this as a major bug to your OS vendor, RedHat in this case. I cannot repeat this enough: a user-mode program, not using any root permissions, and doing nothing but publicly documented system calls, should not be able to cause this. If I had mischief in mind, I could probably use this flaw as DOS-attack: just launch processes forever, each hitting this OS bug... Unfortunately, this all comes down to the simple fact that MK is triggering a serious bug on three different OS'es so far (RH, HPUX, OSX), so I have no option other than try and find a workaround. The world is too big, wheels turn too slowly, and MK is not likely to make anyone change things - even when a reproducible hard bug like this proves them to be causing it. Sigh... Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and also: what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? With a bit of luck, your hang may be one I can reproduce - *then* I can start digging in. -jcw PS. FWIW, the problem seems to be related to having a datafile open, writing to it, even extending it at times, while there is a mmap on it (which is R/O) and with some of the writes using pointers into that map as data. With page-size allocations, a write to a page using data from that same page (never overlapping) may well mightily confuse an imperfect OS, as it tries to copy-on-write perhaps, page-faulting with a lock pending on the write while the read is in use. Whatever. I may even try to create a small example in an attempt to force OS vendors to fix this after all... But first, I need a setup to reproduce this behavior. As if there isn't enough work... :) _______________________________________________ metakit mailing list - metakit@equi4.com http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/metakit From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Oct 7 18:16:34 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97NGYa26109; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:16:34 -0500 Received: [from mothost.mot.com (mothost.mot.com [129.188.137.101]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA12813; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:17:02 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by mothost.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA00286; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:16:58 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YSD5S; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:16:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA215E9.9F4D2CD2@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:16:57 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: Starkit list , MetaKit mailing list Subject: Re: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior References: <9F8A5256-DA3E-11D6-8313-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, <..snip..> > Unfortunately, this all comes down to the simple fact that MK is > triggering a serious bug on three different OS'es so far (RH, HPUX, > OSX), so I have no option other than try and find a workaround. The > world is too big, wheels turn too slowly, and MK is not likely to make > anyone change things - even when a reproducible hard bug like this > proves them to be causing it. > > Sigh... > > Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. > > 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it > somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. > > 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and > also: > what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? > > With a bit of luck, your hang may be one I can reproduce - *then* I can > start digging in. > > -jcw > > PS. FWIW, the problem seems to be related to having a datafile open, > writing to it, even extending it at times, while there is a mmap on it > (which is R/O) and with some of the writes using pointers into that map > as data. With page-size allocations, a write to a page using data from > that same page (never overlapping) may well mightily confuse an > imperfect OS, as it tries to copy-on-write perhaps, page-faulting with > a lock pending on the write while the read is in use. Whatever. I may > even try to create a small example in an attempt to force OS vendors to > fix this after all... My sysadmin has been out the passed couple of days. When he returns I'm going to ask him if there are any patches for mmap bugs for my HP. It is possible that the bug has been reported and fixed but my system hasn't been patch since the strategy here is "never patch a working system". I'll let you know what I find out when he returns. Tom K. From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Mon Oct 7 18:22:46 2002 Received: from motgate2.mot.com (motgate2.mot.com [136.182.1.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97NMja26397; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:22:45 -0500 Received: [from pobox4.mot.com (pobox4.mot.com [10.64.251.243]) by motgate2.mot.com (motgate2 2.1) with ESMTP id QAA16161; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:23:13 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox4.mot.com (MOT-pobox4 2.0) with ESMTP id QAA10644; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:23:09 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YSD6P; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:23:09 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA2175D.27740634@motorola.com> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:23:09 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: "'Jean-Claude Wippler'" , Starkit list , MetaKit mailing list Subject: Re: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Berk, > Is the data on NFS mounted directories? > > We used to have this kind of problems also where we build some databases > as part of build process into NFS. > > Some memory access patterns was causing big problems to us between > Auspex NFS server and Solaris workstations (Solaris NFS server was OK) > THen we had similar problems on other ones. (we used to go infinite loop > and take 100% on the build machine the whole night) > > I think mmap across nfs was creating some problems which we never saw under > very heavy load using local databases. > > This might be totally unrelated. I hope the above will be helpfull as a > datapoint for this kind of issues... Interesting :-/ The problem on my HP showed up when I was doing a save from wikit. The problem is stable. All my files are on a file server an I thought there was the possibility of a problem between NFS as implemented on HP and NFS as implemented on the file server. Can I test the hypothesis by storing the db in /tmp on the host? I thought about trying it but haven't done it yet. Tom K. From gay@sfu.ca Mon Oct 7 18:53:44 2002 Received: from rm-rstar.sfu.ca (root@rm-rstar.sfu.ca [142.58.120.21]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g97Nria27564 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:53:44 -0500 Received: from sfu.ca (fs171.dialin.sfu.ca [142.58.74.171]) by rm-rstar.sfu.ca (8.12.5/8.12.5/SFU-5.0H) with ESMTP id g97Ns5gB016369 for ; Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:54:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3DA21EE8.8090508@sfu.ca> Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 16:55:20 -0700 From: Ian Gay User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.1a) Gecko/20020611 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: starkit@equi4.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] Win98 exit crash Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: JCW wrote: Could someone who has been seeing consistent crash-on-exit problems with tclkit do a quick to see whether the latest builds are an imporvment? The new code is at: http://www.equi4.com/pub/tk/newer/ A bug was fixed in the "rechan" extension which caused it to crash with files open in VFS - this is a general enough change that it may well have been at the root of other issues, such as this one. -jcw ---------------- Alas, it still crashes. But is that the correct tclkit there? I downloaded the Oct. 7 UPX version, but ::vfs::tclkit_version has the value 200209.011. From nicolasb@maich.gr Tue Oct 8 01:55:44 2002 Received: from mail-server (mail.maich.gr [193.218.36.74]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g986tha17519 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 01:55:43 -0500 Received: FROM maich.gr BY mail-server ; Tue Oct 08 10:25:28 2002 +0300 Message-ID: <3DA282B5.6080902@maich.gr> Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:01:09 +0300 From: Nicolas Boretos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.0rc2) Gecko/20020510 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jean-Claude Wippler CC: Starkit list , MetaKit mailing list Subject: Re: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior References: <9F8A5256-DA3E-11D6-8313-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: > Sigh... > > Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. > > 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it > somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. > > 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and also: > what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? > Hi, I have a RH 7.1 server and could run some tests... regards, nicolas boretos From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Tue Oct 8 08:44:49 2002 Received: from houston.jhuapl.edu (houston.jhuapl.edu [128.244.26.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g98Dina09654; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:44:49 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) id <0H3O002010V3LV@houston.jhuapl.edu>; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) with ESMTP id <0H3O00FHG0UXPP@houston.jhuapl.edu>; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g98Diua08154; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:44:56 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Subject: Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior In-reply-to: <9F8A5256-DA3E-11D6-8313-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Sender: jhz@aplexus.jhuapl.edu To: Jean-Claude Wippler Cc: Starkit list , MetaKit mailing list Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: aplexus.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Jean-Claude, I have included the information you wanted in-line with your email text. I agree that the OS should not allow such things to happen. Since it is linux, there is a chance we could even fix the bug, but I have neither the time or familiarity with linux internals to tackle this at this time. I will look into letting the linux community and RedHat know about this. Might help improve their system. Even as 'su' the process could not be killed. Maybe it has to do with the SGI SMP aspects... By the way, you and the other developers deservemany thanks for the fine work and ideas you have contributed to bring the starkit concept and implementation to this point. On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Jean-Claude Wippler wrote: > john_zouck@jhuapl.edu wrote: > > > I have had a problem with tclkit for linux when running on an SGI > > computer > > with Redhat linux. It seems to run fine, but then when I exit it hangs, > > and leaves processes that can't be killed without rebooting. I just > > downloaded a new tclkit from equi4 and the behavior is the same as the > > older ones: > > > > jhz[\H:(~)]8: ./tclkit-linux-x86 > > % exit > > > > At this point I can't ctrl-c or ctrl-z. > [...] > > Can't kill -9 either. > > Ouch, that is a major bug. You're not the first one to run into it, > nor is it limited to Linux. > > First let's get this straight: a user-mode program which causes the OS > to leave it in an uniterruptable state is an *OS* bug. So the most > *accurate* advice I can give is: report this as a major bug to your OS > vendor, RedHat in this case. > > I cannot repeat this enough: a user-mode program, not using any root > permissions, and doing nothing but publicly documented system calls, > should not be able to cause this. If I had mischief in mind, I could > probably use this flaw as DOS-attack: just launch processes forever, > each hitting this OS bug... > > Unfortunately, this all comes down to the simple fact that MK is > triggering a serious bug on three different OS'es so far (RH, HPUX, > OSX), so I have no option other than try and find a workaround. The > world is too big, wheels turn too slowly, and MK is not likely to make > anyone change things - even when a reproducible hard bug like this > proves them to be causing it. > > Sigh... > > Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. > > 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it > somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. Trying 128.244.28.62... Connected to ardana.jhuapl.edu. Escape character is '^]'. Red Hat Linux release 6.2 (Zoot) Kernel 2.2.15-3SGI_39smp on an i686 login: jhz Password: Last login: Mon Oct 7 17:15:17 from aplexus.jhuapl.edu > > 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and > also: > what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? jhz[\H:(~)]1: recent total 57892 -rwxr-xr-x 1 jhz users 2864054 Oct 7 17:11 tclkit-linux-x86* jhz[\H:(~)]1: sum tclkit-* 47402 2797 jhz[\H:(~)]4: ./tclkit-linux-x86 % puts $vfs::tclkit_version 200209 > > With a bit of luck, your hang may be one I can reproduce - *then* I can > start digging in. > > -jcw > > PS. FWIW, the problem seems to be related to having a datafile open, > writing to it, even extending it at times, while there is a mmap on it > (which is R/O) and with some of the writes using pointers into that map > as data. With page-size allocations, a write to a page using data from > that same page (never overlapping) may well mightily confuse an > imperfect OS, as it tries to copy-on-write perhaps, page-faulting with > a lock pending on the write while the read is in use. Whatever. I may > even try to create a small example in an attempt to force OS vendors to > fix this after all... > > But first, I need a setup to reproduce this behavior. > > As if there isn't enough work... :) > > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Tue Oct 8 08:47:54 2002 Received: from houston.jhuapl.edu (houston.jhuapl.edu [128.244.26.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g98Dlsa09935; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:47:54 -0500 Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) id <0H3O0030110894@houston.jhuapl.edu>; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from aplexus.jhuapl.edu (aplexus.jhuapl.edu [128.244.28.6]) by houston.jhuapl.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #40040) with ESMTP id <0H3O00FGN100EI@houston.jhuapl.edu>; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (jhz@localhost) by aplexus.jhuapl.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g98Dm0308291; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:48:00 -0400 (EDT) From: john_zouck@jhuapl.edu Subject: RE: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavio r In-reply-to: X-Sender: jhz@aplexus.jhuapl.edu To: "Berk, Murat" Cc: "'Jean-Claude Wippler'" , Starkit list , MetaKit mailing list Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Authentication-warning: aplexus.jhuapl.edu: jhz owned process doing -bs Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Berk, Murat wrote: > Is the data on NFS mounted directories? All the files are on the local disk: jhz[\H:(~)]4: df Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part5 4134900 2506264 1418588 64% / /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 31079 8412 21063 29% /boot /dev/scsi/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part6 13227316 7121508 5433892 57% /home > > We used to have this kind of problems also where we build some databases > as part of build process into NFS. > > Some memory access patterns was causing big problems to us between > Auspex NFS server and Solaris workstations (Solaris NFS server was OK) > THen we had similar problems on other ones. (we used to go infinite loop > and take 100% on the build machine the whole night) > > I think mmap across nfs was creating some problems which we never saw under > very heavy load using local databases. > > This might be totally unrelated. I hope the above will be helpfull as a > datapoint for this kind of issues... > > Murat > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean-Claude Wippler [mailto:jcw@equi4.com] > Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 5:49 PM > To: Starkit list > Cc: MetaKit mailing list > Subject: [Metakit] Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior > > > john_zouck@jhuapl.edu wrote: > > > I have had a problem with tclkit for linux when running on an SGI > > computer > > with Redhat linux. It seems to run fine, but then when I exit it hangs, > > and leaves processes that can't be killed without rebooting. I just > > downloaded a new tclkit from equi4 and the behavior is the same as the > > older ones: > > > > jhz[\H:(~)]8: ./tclkit-linux-x86 > > % exit > > > > At this point I can't ctrl-c or ctrl-z. > [...] > > Can't kill -9 either. > > Ouch, that is a major bug. You're not the first one to run into it, > nor is it limited to Linux. > > First let's get this straight: a user-mode program which causes the OS > to leave it in an uniterruptable state is an *OS* bug. So the most > *accurate* advice I can give is: report this as a major bug to your OS > vendor, RedHat in this case. > > I cannot repeat this enough: a user-mode program, not using any root > permissions, and doing nothing but publicly documented system calls, > should not be able to cause this. If I had mischief in mind, I could > probably use this flaw as DOS-attack: just launch processes forever, > each hitting this OS bug... > > Unfortunately, this all comes down to the simple fact that MK is > triggering a serious bug on three different OS'es so far (RH, HPUX, > OSX), so I have no option other than try and find a workaround. The > world is too big, wheels turn too slowly, and MK is not likely to make > anyone change things - even when a reproducible hard bug like this > proves them to be causing it. > > Sigh... > > Ok, next step is for *me* to be able to reproduce this. > > 1) What version of RedHat are you using? If I can grab a copy of it > somewhere, I'll set up a machine and repeat your runs. > > 2) What is the size/date of the tclkit executable you are using, and > also: > what does the Tcl command "puts $vfs::tclkit_version" return? > > With a bit of luck, your hang may be one I can reproduce - *then* I can > start digging in. > > -jcw > > PS. FWIW, the problem seems to be related to having a datafile open, > writing to it, even extending it at times, while there is a mmap on it > (which is R/O) and with some of the writes using pointers into that map > as data. With page-size allocations, a write to a page using data from > that same page (never overlapping) may well mightily confuse an > imperfect OS, as it tries to copy-on-write perhaps, page-faulting with > a lock pending on the write while the read is in use. Whatever. I may > even try to create a small example in an attempt to force OS vendors to > fix this after all... > > But first, I need a setup to reproduce this behavior. > > As if there isn't enough work... :) > > _______________________________________________ > metakit mailing list - metakit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/metakit > _______________________________________________ > starkit mailing list > starkit@equi4.com > http://www.equi4.com/mailman/listinfo/starkit > ============================ John H. Zouck The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory ============================ From steve@digital-smarties.com Tue Oct 8 09:50:36 2002 Received: from digital-smarties.com (IDENT:qmailr@gw.digital-smarties.com [203.59.125.206]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g98EoZa14247 for ; Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:50:35 -0500 Received: (qmail 9664 invoked by uid 8); 8 Oct 2002 14:50:58 -0000 Received: from pc-00060 (192.168.1.60, claiming to be "[192.168.1.60]") by gateway.digital-smarties.com with SMTP id smtpdaH9dZj; Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:50:52 EDT From: "Steve Landers" To: , "Jean-Claude Wippler" Cc: "Starkit list" , "MetaKit mailing list" Subject: Re: [Starkit] Strange SGI Linux tclkit exit behavior Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 22:50:49 +0800 Message-Id: <20021008145049.12430@mail.digital-smarties.com> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: CTM PowerMail 4.0.1 carbon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: John, > Even as 'su' the process could not be >killed. Maybe it has to do with the SGI SMP aspects... That would not suprise me ... I'll be having a look at this tomorrow to see if it occurs on RedHat 7.2 Steve From wliao@generationec.com Wed Oct 9 18:46:52 2002 Received: from mail2.intermedia.net (mail2.intermedia.net [206.40.48.152]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g99Nkqa09227 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:46:52 -0500 Received: from generationec.com (unverified [216.198.69.129]) by mail2.intermedia.net (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:47:17 -0700 Received: by generationec.com (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:47:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:47:17 -0500 From: Wenchi Liao To: starkit@equi4.com Message-ID: <20021009234717.GA1712@generationec.com> Mail-Followup-To: starkit@equi4.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i Subject: [Starkit] wikit and suid Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hey, all. I had a thread about this on clt, but work intervened... So here's the run down: I'm running tclkit (hot off of the ftp server as of today) on NetBSD/alpha. [puts $vfs::tclkit_version] results in 200209. The web server is apache 1.3.something. In general, tclkit seems fine: I can make silly cgi's that call tclkit, and it is executed properly. When I try to run a wiki, however, only tclkit suid will work. (BTW, this isn't my machine, so the amount of experimentation I can do is limited....). This seems to point to permissions, but I can't figure it out. Here's the script I'm using to start the cgi: $ cat wiki.cgi #!/bin/sh - umask 022 BASE=/arpa/tz/w/wliao/html/wiki BIN=/arpa/tz/w/wliao/html/bin WIKIT_BASE=http://wliao.freeshell.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/ export WIKIT_BASE WIKIT_DUMP=$BASE/wiki.log export WIKIT_DUMP exec $BIN/tclkit $BASE/wikit.kit $BASE/1.tkd Here's how ownership works out: $ ls -l wikit.kit 1.tkd ../bin/tclkit -rwxr-xr-x 1 wliao users 3838070 Oct 9 17:05 ../bin/tclkit* -rwxrwxrwx 1 wliao users 20358 Aug 30 18:03 1.tkd* -rwxr-xr-x 1 wliao users 53197 Aug 27 10:55 wikit.kit* When trying to run this, I get the dreaded internal service error message. The error.log reports premature end of script headers. If I use a tclkit suid to me, then the wiki shows up and everything is fine. Running this suid myself isn't that bad. What is bad is if I change 1.tkd to mode 700 or 744, I lose the ability to edit the wiki...which I do need. There seems to be a check in wikit/lib/wikit/utils.tcl:88 to check the writable status, but I haven't been able to track this particular bit down. Any ideas? WL From mhankyson@hotmail.com Wed Oct 9 21:44:45 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (f11.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.11]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9A2ija19113 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:44:45 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 19:45:05 -0700 Received: from 203.32.142.5 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 02:45:04 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.32.142.5] From: "Michael Hankinson" To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:45:04 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Oct 2002 02:45:05.0660 (UTC) FILETIME=[0A1DC3C0:01C27007] Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi all, I have been looking into the 5 second commit problem. I made a change to line 264 in the mk4vfs.tcl file in tclkit from this if { $flush } { to this if { $flush == 0 } { and now it appears to be working. I am new to tcl and programming so I am not confident in what I am doing. Can someone please check this to see if it really does fix the problem? Regards Michael >From: "Michael Hankinson" >To: starkit@equi4.com >Subject: RE: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? >Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 23:39:50 +1000 > >Hi all, > >I am having the same problem with the 5 second commit on a wrapped version >of Tclhttpd on Debian Linux. I used the -writable flag and got a >Segmentation fault when I downloaded the first page. I wrapped again with >-writable and -nocompress, everything appeared to run perfectly but any >changes I made and also any file I uploaded to the webserver were not saved >to disk but appeared to be in memory. The starkit size didn't increase at >all while the Tclhttpd starkit was running or when I exited. > >Also I don't think I am stopping Tclhttpd correctly while wrapped in a >starkit that's probably why it did not get saved on exit. I use Control C >or kill -TERM pid. > >Regards > >Michael > > > >Jeff Godfrey said: > >>Thanks for the quick response. So, it seems that the Star*pack* was the >>problem, but a Star*kit* should work as expected. I'll try that out. > >Hey Jeff, I was having some problems with the commit. Could you please >let us know what happens when you write to the vfs in a star*kit* - do the >changes get saved when you close the file in the vfs, or only after the >starkit exits? Thanks a lot. > >Ro _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com From mike@eolas.com Wed Oct 9 21:52:03 2002 Received: from www.iomas.com (65-85-54-210.client.dsl.net [65.85.54.210]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9A2q2a19433 for ; Wed, 9 Oct 2002 21:52:03 -0500 Received: from mike.eolas.com [65.85.54.221] by www.iomas.com with ESMTP (SMTPD32-7.04) id AB605F040342; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:52:16 -0500 Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009215117.041718a8@mail.eolas.com> X-Sender: miked@mail.eolas.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:52:27 -0500 To: starkit@equi4.com From: Mike Doyle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: [Starkit] Kitten docs Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Has anyone compiled a set of docs, or at least links to docs, for the 130 packages now included in Kitten.kit ? --Mike From lvirden@cas.org Thu Oct 10 04:11:16 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9A9BGa07491 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 04:11:16 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g9A9BZok015909 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g9A9BZv06056; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:11:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20021010051135.AAB6045@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:45:04 +1000 To: starkit@equi4.com Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: "Michael Hankinson" >I have been looking into the 5 second commit problem. I made a change to >line 264 in the mk4vfs.tcl file in tclkit >from this > if { $flush } { > >to this > if { $flush == 0 } { > >and now it appears to be working. I am new to tcl and programming so I am >not confident in what I am doing. Can someone please check this to see if it >really does fix the problem? Weird - changing the condition for that code from 'do when flush is needed' to 'do when flush is not needed' fixed the delay? -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Thu Oct 10 05:13:01 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9AAD0a12383; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:13:00 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:13:27 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: "Larry W. Virden" From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <20021010051135.AAB6045@cas.org> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > From: "Michael Hankinson" > >> I have been looking into the 5 second commit problem. [...] >> if { $flush == 0 } { >> and now it appears to be working. [...] > Weird - changing the condition for that code from 'do when flush is > needed' > to 'do when flush is not needed' fixed the delay? No, this won't do it, I'm afraid - it causes a single commit as far as I can tell. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Thu Oct 10 10:06:10 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9AF6Aa04772 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:06:10 -0500 Received: from srv13.cas.org (srv13 [134.243.65.81]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g9AF6Tok027317 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by srv13.cas.org (8.8.8+Sun/m4_8.8.8/CAS_CLIENT-1.16) id LAA11685; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20021010110628.AAB10483@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] File extensions - .bin vs .kit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Across the wikit and elsewhere I see references to things like sdx.bin and critcl.kit . Are the extensions arbitrary or meant to convey info? The .bin ones seem to me to be less useful, as it seems more likely that something called '.bin' is being used elsewhere. Just wondering whether a convention of using .kit for starkits (and I guess .exe for starpacks) might be useful to agree upon and use in general. Or are the references to things like sdx.bin older reference which just need updated? -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Thu Oct 10 10:16:08 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9AFG7a05923 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:16:07 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:16:37 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] File extensions - .bin vs .kit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20021010110628.AAB10483@cas.org> Message-Id: <4515D96D-DC63-11D6-B9B9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > Across the wikit and elsewhere I see references to things like > sdx.bin and critcl.kit . Thanks for bringing this up - the .bin is old, obsolete. There needs to be something - without extension som browsers decide it is text and apply CR/LF conversion, or worse: decide to dump the contents on the screen. Both .tkd and .bin are leftovers from the past, as far as I'm concerned. Let's track those down and change to .kit everywhere. Starpacks are trickier - I'm using .exe for win32 code, and gzip compressing all the rest (including tclkits), then storing them as ,gz > Or are the references to things like sdx.bin older reference which > just need updated? Bot reference and instances need to be updated - please do so as you see fit, and let me know where there are files with old naming conventions still lying around. -jcw From tom.krehbiel@motorola.com Thu Oct 10 10:35:18 2002 Received: from motgate3.mot.com (motgate3.mot.com [144.189.100.103]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9AFZIa08117 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:35:18 -0500 Received: [from pobox.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate3.mot.com (motgate3 2.1) with ESMTP id IAA11321 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:33:18 -0700 (MST)] Received: [from az33exm25.corp.mot.com (az33exm25.corp.mot.com [10.64.65.157]) by pobox.mot.com (MOT-pobox 2.0) with ESMTP id IAA20203 for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:35:44 -0700 (MST)] Received: from motorola.com (arbok.sps.mot.com [172.16.7.187]) by az33exm25.corp.mot.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2654.52) id S47YS2XW; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:35:43 -0700 Message-ID: <3DA59E4F.F40BF9A3@motorola.com> Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:35:43 -0700 From: Tom Krehbiel Organization: MOTOROLA/SPS/T&M/DDL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; HP-UX B.11.00 9000/785) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: starkit@equi4.com References: <20021009234717.GA1712@generationec.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Starkit] wikit .tkd question Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm trying to figure out how to use wikit as a help system for an application and would like to know if it is possible to unpack the .tkd file, edit the documents directly and then repack the .tkd. I found a copy of the wikitool.tcl but it crashes the wikit.tkd generated by my wikit. Tom K. From lvirden@cas.org Fri Oct 11 05:27:25 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9BAROa09068 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 05:27:25 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g9BARiok017478 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:27:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g9BARi721522; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:27:44 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20021011062744.AAB21368@cas.org> To: starkit@equi4.com Subject: [Starkit] Question about building tclkit from genkit Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: First, let me start out for the reason that I am even thinking about the stuff below. I'm thinking over what, if any, potential problems a user (of a binary tclkit that I build here) might have if attempting to use that binary on a compatible platform. I have no reports of problems. Everything might be just fine. I'm trying to anticipate where the problems might occur. My users tend to find those dark corners where others do not tread . Anyways, here's the scoop. All I am looking for is either confirmation that these things are normal and that people have found that it causes no problems. Or a response that no one else in the world has ever noticed or cared about it... I downloaded the genkit and associated tar files, etc. from the web site. I follow the examples, stumble over a problem where g++ on Solaris requires me apparently to put the libstdc++.so directory into my LD_LIBRARY_PATH (yuck!), and get something that appears to be a tclkit. However, the executable I have is different from the tclkit being distributed for sparc solaris. I don't know if this is an OS , site, platform, or personal environment difference. When I download the sparc solaris tclkit from the web site, I look to see what dynamic library dependencies exist: $ ldd tclkit libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 libsocket.so.1 => /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1 libnsl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1 libm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libm.so.1 libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 libmp.so.2 => /usr/lib/libmp.so.2 /usr/platform/SUNW,Sun-Blade-100/lib/libc_psr.so.1 Dynamic library, socket, name resolution, math (regular and multiple precision), standard C , the c_psr is probably multi-processor C support. Now, I look at the version I built: $ ldd $(whence tclkit) libX11.so.4 => /usr/openwin/lib/libX11.so.4 libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 libsocket.so.1 => /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1 libm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libm.so.1 libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 libnsl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1 libXext.so.0 => /usr/openwin/lib/libXext.so.0 libmp.so.2 => /usr/lib/libmp.so.2 libdga.so.1 => /usr/openwin/lib/libdga.so.1 /usr/platform/SUNW,Sun-Blade-100/lib/libc_psr.so.1 Notice the X11, Xext, and dga dependencies. The first two are X11 libraries. The last appears to be a direct graphics access library for Sparc frame buffers. Perhaps this is a Solaris 8 thing. I just can't tell. Since I just followed the instructions, I don't know if this is normal or what. Another question is that of embedded path names. For instance, when I go searching the binary of tclkit, I see at least 4 paths in the executable that are local directories. 3 are related to the basic location where tclkit is building. The other is in a list of library paths to look for libraries. I didn't enter any of these. Doesn't seem like that -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Fri Oct 11 06:03:52 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9BB3pa11616 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:03:51 -0500 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:04:21 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Question about building tclkit from genkit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20021011062744.AAB21368@cas.org> Message-Id: <31A12F48-DD09-11D6-B9B9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: > I'm thinking over what, if any, potential problems > a user (of a binary tclkit that I build here) might have if attempting > to use > that binary on a compatible platform. Great thinking :) Binary distribution is common on Win32 and OSX, and also Linux, but the rest of the Unix world has not yet latched on to it - unfortunately. In fact, standard Unix folklore seems to be to advise against doing this. So TclKit is often going in unchartered areas there... > I have no reports of problems. Everything might be just fine. > I'm trying to anticipate where the problems might occur. My users > tend to find those dark corners where others do not tread . Real life users do. > I downloaded the genkit and associated tar files, etc. from the web > site. > I follow the examples, stumble over a problem where g++ on Solaris > requires me apparently to put the libstdc++.so directory into my > LD_LIBRARY_PATH (yuck!), and get something that appears to be a tclkit. Yuck indeed. Gcc on solaris wants to link to a static lib and cannot find it otherwise (sdtc++ IIRC). > However, the executable I have is different from the tclkit being > distributed > for sparc solaris. I don't know if this is an OS , site, platform, or > personal environment difference. Solaris has always caused me trouble, because it does not have all code available in .a libs, hence I cannot use the "-static" flag for gcc linkage. That option is what makes tclkit on Linux *fully* self contained, and runnable on every ELF-enabled Linux there is. It has no dependencies on anything other than system calls. With Solaris (and HP-UX, and OSF1, and OSX), this is not an option (yet?). This means there is bound to be trouble - we may have to keep a couple of binaries around - or even ask people to build tclkit for their shlib-mix-du-jour. I see no resolution - but hope things end up working most of the time without such steps. On Solaris, that is also the reason why I build on 5.7 - which runs on 5.8, but not vice versa. > Now, I look at the version I built: [...] > Notice the X11, Xext, and dga dependencies. The first two are X11 > libraries. The last appears to be a direct graphics access library for > Sparc frame buffers. That's the other linkage issue. There's tclkitsh (no X11), and tclkit in two variations: with X11 linked into it, or with tk loaded from VFS dynamically. I tend to pick the last of the two when static linkage is not fully possible, as on Solaris, whereas static linkage for tclkitsh is. That means Tcl will start up properly on any machine, but Tk may fail if the shared runtime libs are causing trouble, a better fallback than not having tclkit run at all. > Perhaps this is a Solaris 8 thing. I just can't tell. Since I just > followed the instructions, I don't know if this is normal or what. My hunch is that the diff is 7 vs 8. > Another question is that of embedded path names. For instance, > when I go searching the binary of tclkit, I see at > least 4 paths in the executable that are local directories. 3 are > related to the basic location where tclkit is building. The > other is in a list of library paths to look for libraries. I didn't > enter any of these. It would be very very useful to try and find a way to get rid of these. As I said, with fully static builds, there are no external paths. When -static is not available, it would be great to at least limit all remaining dependencies. First place to look is in tclsh, which genkit builds as part of the process: ldd install/`hostname`/bin/tclsh8.4 Once those dependencies are minimized, it would be good to try fixing the rest in genkit, when it builds kit and kitsh. Comments, suggestions, fixes, patches are - as always - most welcome. -jcw From lvirden@cas.org Fri Oct 11 09:59:04 2002 Received: from srv01.cas.org (srv01s4.cas.org [134.243.50.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9BEx4a31018 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:59:04 -0500 Received: from lwv26awu.cas.org (lwv26awu [134.243.40.138]) by srv01.cas.org (8.12.5/m8.12.5/CAS_MAIL_HUB-2.00) with ESMTP id g9BExOok027691 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:59:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from lwv26@localhost) by lwv26awu.cas.org (8.11.6+Sun/m4_8.11.6/CAS_CLIENT-1.18) id g9BExNe14489; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:59:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larry W. Virden" Message-Id: <20021011105923.AAB632@cas.org> Subject: Re: [Starkit] Question about building tclkit from genkit In-Reply-To: <31A12F48-DD09-11D6-B9B9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> of Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:04:21 +0200 To: Starkit list Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From: Jean-Claude Wippler > It would be very very useful to try and find a way to get rid of these. > As I said, with fully static builds, there are no external paths. > When -static is not available, it would be great to at least limit all > remaining dependencies. Okay, here's what I found regarding the paths. My build right now is going on a small local disk with a unique path name. So from the top level directory I typed: $ gfind . -type f -print | xargs gegrep -l /ldatae ./out/lwv26awu/tcl ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/config.log ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/config.status ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/Makefile ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/dltest/Makefile ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/tclConfig.sh ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/tclUnixInit.o ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/libtcl8.4.a ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/tclsh ./install/lwv26awu/lib/libtcl8.4.a ./install/lwv26awu/lib/tclConfig.sh ./install/lwv26awu/bin/tclsh8.4 This is the list of files which make reference to my unique path name. The places which concern me, seeing these, are: ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/tclConfig.sh ./build/lwv26awu/tcl/tclUnixInit.o The first is that many of the configuration values have full paths in them. I wonder if relative paths could/should be used in most of these cases, at least for tclkit. The second item said to me that some -D when compiling tclUnixInit had the path in it. So I checked the out/hostname/tcl file and found: gcc -pipe -c -O -Wall -Wconversion -Wno-implicit-int -fPIC -I../../../src/tcl/un ix/../generic -I../../../src/tcl/unix -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_LIMITS_H=1 -DTCL_ WIDE_INT_TYPE=long\ long -DHAVE_STRUCT_DIRENT64=1 -DHAVE_STRUCT_STAT64=1 -DHAVE_ TYPE_OFF64_T=1 -DWORDS_BIGENDIAN=1 -DHAVE_GETCWD=1 -DHAVE_OPENDIR=1 -DHAVE_STRST R=1 -DHAVE_STRTOL=1 -DHAVE_STRTOLL=1 -DHAVE_STRTOULL=1 -DHAVE_TMPNAM=1 -DHAVE_WA ITPID=1 -DHAVE_UNISTD_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_PARAM_H=1 -DUSE_TERMIOS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_TIME_H =1 -DTIME_WITH_SYS_TIME=1 -DHAVE_TZNAME=1 -DHAVE_GMTIME_R=1 -DHAVE_LOCALTIME_R=1 -DHAVE_TIMEZONE_VAR=1 -DHAVE_ST_BLKSIZE=1 -Dstrtod=fixstrtod -DSTDC_HEADERS=1 - DNO_UNION_WAIT=1 -DHAVE_SIGNED_CHAR=1 -DHAVE_LANGINFO=1 -DSTATIC_BUILD=1 -D_REEN TRANT=1 -D_POSIX_PTHREAD_SEMANTICS=1 -DHAVE_SYS_IOCTL_H=1 -DHAVE_SYS_FILIO_H=1 -DTCL_SHLIB_EXT=\".so\" -DTCL_LIBRARY=\"/ldatae/tclkit/noarch/lib/tcl8.4\ " \ -DTCL_PACKAGE_PATH="\"/ldatae/tclkit/install/lwv26awu/lib /ldatae/tclkit/noarch/ lib\"" \ ../../../src/tcl/unix/../unix/tclUnixInit.c And there are the sources of the situation: TCL_LIBRARY and TCL_PACKAGE_PATH values. In a Tclkit situation, I wonder - should these values be set to some path that is going to be inside the VFS? >First place to look is in tclsh, which genkit builds as part of the >process: > ldd install/`hostname`/bin/tclsh8.4 >Once those dependencies are minimized, it would be good to try fixing >the rest in genkit, when it builds kit and kitsh. $ ldd install/lwv*/bin/tclsh8.4 libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 libsocket.so.1 => /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1 libm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libm.so.1 libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 libnsl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1 libmp.so.2 => /usr/lib/libmp.so.2 /usr/platform/SUNW,Sun-Blade-100/lib/libc_psr.so.1 Those look pretty much like the original list, as far as I can tell. Just a note. I just tried out the tclkit and even with those full paths, the things tested (a simple tcl command and a package require) seem to work just fine - so it doesn't seem like it is an urgent situation. -- Tcl - The glue of a new generation. Larry W. Virden Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should be construed as representing my employer's opinions. -><- From jcw@equi4.com Fri Oct 11 18:03:30 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9BN3Sa06101 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:03:28 -0500 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:04:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Question about building tclkit from genkit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20021011105923.AAB632@cas.org> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Larry W. Virden wrote: >> It would be very very useful to try and find a way to get rid of >> these. >> As I said, with fully static builds, there are no external paths. >> When -static is not available, it would be great to at least limit all >> remaining dependencies. > > Okay, here's what I found regarding the paths. [...] The only one that matters is tclUnixInit.o - the rest are either build by-products or based on it. > The second item said to me that some -D when compiling tclUnixInit had > the path > in it. So I checked the out/hostname/tcl file and found: [...] > -DTCL_SHLIB_EXT=\".so\" > -DTCL_LIBRARY=\"/ldatae/tclkit/noarch/lib/tcl8.4\ > " \ > -DTCL_PACKAGE_PATH="\"/ldatae/tclkit/install/lwv26awu/lib > /ldatae/tclkit/noarch/ > lib\"" \ [...] > And there are the sources of the situation: TCL_LIBRARY and > TCL_PACKAGE_PATH > values. Yes - I've argued (forgot with whom, someone from the TCT, IIRC) about this. A lib should not embed a build path - it was argued, that it is in there to allow Tcl to find its init.tcl file. I'm not convinced - this same path is what masks problems I (still) have with encoding startup. At best, as you say, one would expect a relative path - though with TclKit it would still not work. > In a Tclkit situation, I wonder - should these values be set to some > path > that is going to be inside the VFS? There are some nasty nasty nasty chicken-and-egg issues with TclKit startup and VFS. TclKit needs a working Tcl interpreter to activate its VFS logic (part of which is coded in Tcl). That interpreter cannot access VFS while it is being created. Hence it has no way to find anything, not even init.tcl or encodings before it has run the VFS scripts. I would hope that the problem is resolvable - I can make sure that all files until final VFS init are in pure UTF-8 form (they are plain scripts, after all), hence encodings are not yet needed. And I can work around init.tcl, which it too is not essential to run the VFS tcl scripts. Now you may wonder how I even *get* those VFS Tcl scripts, since "source" into VFS is not yet possible... ah, that's a trick TclKit plays on startup in kitInit.c: it accesses a few files inside the MK datafile with plain C/C++ calls, then evals the resulting strings. As I said, this area is full of tricky issues. Hopefully, everything gets resolved as more and more experience is gained and Tcl startup gets streamlined further. One interesting idea (by Kevin Kenny, IIRC) is to implement an "internal VFS" file system, which is always available to Tcl. That could store the key files to get the rest going. BTW, this is very similar to an OS booting, not having disk access, mounting a boot partition, reading in the kernel, then installing a RAM disk, pulling some more things out of that, and finally ending up with a clean file system setup. In fact, once we get this right, one could consider building a restricted tclkit, which has *no* native disk access. It would merely have R/O access to its VFS-at-end-of-exe runtime files, and things like sockets. Such a "diskless app" can run safely on any machine, with a high degree of security - it could not read or write anything off local or mounted disks, an attractive deployment option for some cases. >> Once those dependencies are minimized, it would be good to try fixing >> the rest in genkit, when it builds kit and kitsh. > > $ ldd install/lwv*/bin/tclsh8.4 > libdl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.1 > libsocket.so.1 => /usr/lib/libsocket.so.1 > libm.so.1 => /usr/lib/libm.so.1 > libc.so.1 => /usr/lib/libc.so.1 > libnsl.so.1 => /usr/lib/libnsl.so.1 > libmp.so.2 => /usr/lib/libmp.so.2 > /usr/platform/SUNW,Sun-Blade-100/lib/libc_psr.so.1 > > Those look pretty much like the original list, as far as I can tell. Last line I don't understand, it;s not in the "a => b" form... > Just a note. I just tried out the tclkit and even with those > full paths, the things tested (a simple tcl command and a package > require) > seem to work just fine - so it doesn't seem like it is an urgent > situation. Yes, we're sailing a bit close to the edge at times, but it does work :) -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Fri Oct 11 18:21:51 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9BNLoa07103 for ; Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:21:50 -0500 Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:22:24 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] wikit .tkd question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <3DA59E4F.F40BF9A3@motorola.com> Message-Id: <4CA7B11C-DD70-11D6-B9B9-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Tom Krehbiel wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to use wikit as a help system for an > application and would like to know if it is possible to unpack the > .tkd file, edit the documents directly and then repack the .tkd. I > found a copy of the wikitool.tcl but it crashes the wikit.tkd > generated by my wikit. Wikitool crashing is a bug - is that http://www.equi4.com/wikit/wikitool ? You say "unpack the .tkd", by which I assume you mean the wikit datafile. Note that wikit.kit (the app) is a starkit, but wikit.tkd is a MetaKit datafile which is *not* a VFS filesystem, but a MetaKit datafile with other database views. The reason is performance - full text search needs direct access to MK's data, i.e. uses mk::select, etc. For now, I would suggest taking critcl.kit apart (from the sdarchive) and examining how it sets up a help system. See also Kevin Kenny's "Dots and Boxes", http://mini.net/tcl/4211, in which he added the same online help system (i.e. a wikit.tkd file stored inside a starkit. Last but not least - the latest wikit.kit has image support, see recent posts on the TclersWiki mailing list at Yahoo groups. Sorry, I should probably have cross-posted this. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TclersWiki/ Oops, I see it is not readable for non-subscribers. Attached a copy of that post. -jcw > From: Jean-Claude Wippler > Date: Sun Oct 6, 2002 16:14:41 Europe/Amsterdam > To: TclersWiki@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [TclersWiki] Wikit embedded images > Reply-To: TclersWiki@yahoogroups.com > > Yours truly penned: > [...] >> Using this, I've implemented the start of a new mechanism to bring >> inlined images into the wikit datafile. The first goal is merely to >> pull them in and display them in local mode [...] > > The change is now complete - local-mode embedded images are supported > (only .gif, since that's the only one Tk supports without further > extensions - bummer...). This is particularly useful for embedded help > systems, which can now include images/graphics. > >> There are a number of new commands, all for use from the command-line: > > They have changed - here is the updated summary: > > tclkit wikit.kit -images scan wikit.tkd > scans all pages, updating an "image cache" inside the wikit.tkd > datafile (this does not fetch images, it just updates that cache) > repeated calls are incremental: adds new / deletes unused items > > tclkit wikit.kit -images list wikit.tkd > lists all entries currently in the image cache, with fetch/file dates > > tclkit wikit.kit -images get wikit.tkd > this goes through the image cache and fetches any entries which have > not been successfully fetched before (only images <= 100 Kb) > > tclkit wikit.kit -images local wikit.tkd > goes through caches, storing all images it can find in [pwd], i.e. > updates and replaces what is in the cache with local file copies > (can be used to add/replace, and to store images > 100 Kb) > > tclkit wikit.kit -images clear wikit.tkd > clear the image cache > (does not compact the wikit datafile, but space willl be re-used > > Another major change is that a title-name cache was added - this > dramatically improves search performance and "rendering" speed of pages > with lots of cross-page links. It turns out that searching and > rendering were in fact already both quite good, but that all time was > lost in looking up page titles for each page reference (the price of > using quick-and-dirty linear MK searches, it's now hashed and instant). > > As a result you will see that the Tcl'ers Wiki has become quite snappy > in local mode, including searches and display of things like the > "Recent Changes" page. > > Please try and bang on this (in CVS and in > http://www.equi4.com/pub/sk/wikit.kit). The improvements are such that > I really would like to switch the Tcl'ers Wiki to this new code ASAP. > > -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Sun Oct 13 11:27:03 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9DGR2a30109; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:27:02 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:27:40 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: "Michael Hankinson" From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Michael Hankinson wrote: [... in response to several preceding posts ...] > I am having the same problem with the 5 second commit on a wrapped > version > of Tclhttpd on Debian Linux. I used the -writable flag and got a > Segmentation fault when I downloaded the first page. I wrapped again > with > -writable and -nocompress, everything appeared to run perfectly but any > changes I made and also any file I uploaded to the webserver were not > saved > to disk but appeared to be in memory. The starkit size didn't increase > at > all while the Tclhttpd starkit was running or when I exited. The crash was caused by a bug in the "rechan" package which is part of TclKit, as reported before. The latest builds resolved this, see /pub/tk/newer/CHANGES and tclkit CVS (src/rechan.c). I had some time to look into the "5 second flush" problem, but cannot reproduce it. Below is a small "flushtest.tcl" script I used (Linux, pub/tk/newer/linux-i686,gz build). Running this, and watching the "haha" test file in another window, I see consistent changes to the file within 5 secs each time, and no changes otherwise. Note that old versions of file contents *will* show up in the file dump - MK will re-use all free space after each commit. If you do find a case where flushes do not happen, please adjust the test script below and send it back along with the platform you are using - so I can reproduce this behavior. The only case where changes do not make it back to the disk, is with starkits not created with sdx's "-writable" flag. Note also that I've fixed sdx's help to document this properly. FYI, sdx is in sdarchive, which in turn points to http://www.equi4.com/pub/sk/sdx.kit -jcw package require Tk vfs::mk4::Mount haha haha pack [button .b -text go -command write] set seq 100 proc write {} { set fd [open haha/abcdefgh_[incr ::seq] w] puts $fd [clock seconds] close $fd } From akupries@shaw.ca Sun Oct 13 13:23:36 2002 Received: from pd3mo3so.prod.shaw.ca (shawidc-mo1.cg.shawcable.net [24.71.223.10]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9DINaa32254 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 13:23:36 -0500 Received: from pd2mr3so.prod.shaw.ca (pd2mr3so-ser.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.141.108]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3X00B4FMZNJF@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pn2ml10so.prod.shaw.ca (pn2ml10so-qfe0.prod.shaw.ca [10.0.121.80]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H3X0061IMZNS0@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bluepeak (h24-78-89-27.vc.shawcable.net [24.78.89.27]) by l-daemon (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.8 (built May 12 2002)) with SMTP id <0H3X002UUMZMML@l-daemon> for starkit@equi4.com; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aku by bluepeak with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 180nGO-0000UI-00 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:14:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 11:14:52 -0700 From: Andreas Kupries To: starkit@equi4.com Message-id: <87adlinr37.fsf@bluepeak.home> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_aESW8VFCERUzLTNnTuERtQ)" User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Lines: 55 Subject: [Starkit] [comp.lang.tcl] Tcl 8.4 & VFS and an interesting problem on Windows :-) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: --Boundary_(ID_aESW8VFCERUzLTNnTuERtQ) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Thought that this is of general interest to users of starkits/packs. --Boundary_(ID_aESW8VFCERUzLTNnTuERtQ) Content-type: message/rfc822 Path: bluepeak.shaw.ca!news2.calgary.shaw.ca!pd2nf2so.cg.shawcable.net!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news-out.newsfeeds.com!propagator2-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!news.shlink.de!mango.news.easynet.net!easynet.net!proxad.net!isdnet!news.internetia.pl!newsfeed.tpinternet.pl!news.tpi.pl!not-for-mail X-Trace: news.tpi.pl 1034328204 12752 217.96.105.122 (11 Oct 2002 09:23:24 GMT) Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:19:06 +0200 From: Wojciech Kocjan Subject: Tcl 8.4 & VFS and an interesting problem on Windows :-) Message-id: Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl/ X-Complaints-to: usenet@tpi.pl MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT NNTP-posting-date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:23:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Accept-Language: pl, en User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826 X-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 03:23:44 MDT (news2.calgary.shaw.ca) Newsgroups: comp.lang.tcl Lines: 26 NNTP-posting-host: hesus.nowiny.net Xref: bluepeak.shaw.ca comp.lang.tcl:140816 Hello. This one is weird and :-) I wanted to use tkMC to edit things wrapped in a starpack. So I pressed the edit button and then wanted to save it back - there only is "Save as" which pops up a tk_GetSaveFile requester. I mounted the archive at L:/, so I wrote L:\lib\something\pkgIndex.tcl - and got an error from the requester. This is quite interesting - if I mount something inside Tcl, then Windows requesters could cause problems. I fixed tkMC, but the problem may come back in the future. The only thing I came up with is that Windows requesters could have another button called 'Select using Tk request' or something similar - so when I want to save it to a file visible only to Tcl/Tk, I press the button and get the Tk requester I know from Unix. -- WK (written at Stardate 56778.4) "Data typing is an illusion. Everything is a sequence of bytes." -Todd Coram --Boundary_(ID_aESW8VFCERUzLTNnTuERtQ) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT -- Sincerely, Andreas Kupries Developer @ Private ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --Boundary_(ID_aESW8VFCERUzLTNnTuERtQ)-- From jcw@equi4.com Sun Oct 13 14:24:43 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9DJOga00686 for ; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:24:42 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:25:19 +0200 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Jean-Claude Wippler To: Starkit list Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <82D2665E-DEE1-11D6-8014-00050251EF2F@equi4.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Subject: [Starkit] itk/iwidgets and self-updates fixed in kitten Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mea culpa. It turns out that the failure to load itk and iwidgets in kitten was not at all related to 3.2/3.3 version issues after all. It was simply a massively botched and half-baked attempt by yours truly to bring kitten's structure in line with starkit layouts, a few months back. Well, this should be fixed now - the updated starkit can be found at sdarchive and here: http://www.equi4.com/pub/sk/kitten.kit Linux and Win32 should be ok, Solaris probably needs some more tweaking. The self-updating "feature" (kitten -u) was still not correct in the last release, but now that several bugs have been squashed in both kitten and tclkit, things work at last. Unfortunately, there's a chicken-and-egg issue here so you will have to first re-fetch kitten.kit in full before you get proper update capability - but after doing it once things should be ok. Long live "kitten -u"! My apologies for all the inconvenience this itk/iwidget failure has caused everyone. -jcw From jcw@equi4.com Sun Oct 13 14:55:18 2002 Received: from equi4.com (madder.xs4all.nl [80.126.24.9]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9DJtHa01229; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:55:17 -0500 Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:55:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [Starkit] Kitten docs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Cc: starkit@equi4.com To: Mike Doyle From: Jean-Claude Wippler In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021009215117.041718a8@mail.eolas.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.546) Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Mike Doyle wrote: > Has anyone compiled a set of docs, or at least links to docs, for the > 130 packages now included in Kitten.kit ? Don't think so. Excellent idea, IMO. We also probably need to point to licenses... Note that kitten now uses wikit as embedded help system. You can reach the contents by unwrapping, it's in kitten.vfs/doc/kitten.tkd - run "tclkit wikit.kit kitten.vfs/doc/kitten.tkd" to add pages, make changes, etc via local-mode Tk access, then wrap it up again. Keep in mind that "kitten -u" is blissfully ignorant of this, so an online upfate will "restore" the file... We could put a "master" copy of kitten.tkd on the web, and have everyone add to it :) I've refrained from doing this so far, because it may not lead to the best results if everyone starts adjusting pages in an ad-hoc manner, but I'll gladly put such a thing up if someone is willing to take charge and keep the general structure and content eh... focused, I guess. -jcw PS. I've updated the wikit package in kitten to the latest rev (to support images). From mhankyson@hotmail.com Sun Oct 13 23:55:20 2002 Received: from hotmail.com (f111.law8.hotmail.com [216.33.241.111]) by trixie.triqs.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g9E4tHa12971; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 23:55:17 -0500 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:55:41 -0700 Received: from 203.32.142.5 by lw8fd.law8.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Mon, 14 Oct 2002 04:55:40 GMT X-Originating-IP: [203.32.142.5] From: "Michael Hankinson" To: jcw@equi4.com Cc: starkit@equi4.com Subject: Re: [Starkit] -writable Starkit / Starpack - how to? Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:55:40 +1000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_37c3_6ed7_4f27" Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2002 04:55:41.0645 (UTC) FILETIME=[F2612FD0:01C2733D] Sender: starkit-admin@equi4.com Errors-To: starkit-admin@equi4.com X-BeenThere: starkit@equi4.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.3 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussions about Starkits, Starpacks, and TclKit List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_37c3_6ed7_4f27 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hi all, >[... in response to several preceding posts ...] >>I am having the same problem with the 5 second commit on a wrapped version >>of Tclhttpd on Debian Linux. I used the -writable flag and got a >>Segmentation fault when I downloaded the first page. I wrapped again with >>-writable and -nocompress, everything appeared to run perfectly but any >>changes I made and also any file I uploaded to the webserver were not >>saved >>to disk but appeared to be in memory. The starkit size didn't increase at >>all while the Tclhttpd starkit was running or when I exited. > >The crash was caused by a bug in the "rechan" package which is part of >TclKit, as reported before. The latest builds resolved this, see >/pub/tk/newer/CHANGES and tclkit CVS (src/rechan.c). > The "rechan" fix has fixed my "segmentation fault" problem. Thanks! >I had some time to look into the "5 second flush" problem, but cannot >reproduce it. Below is a small "flushtest.tcl" script I used (Linux, >pub/tk/newer/linux-i686,gz build). > >Running this, and watching the "haha" test file in another window, I see >consistent changes to the file within 5 secs each time, and no changes >otherwise. Note that old versions of file contents *will* show up in the >file dump - MK will re-use all free space after each commit. > >If you do find a case where flushes do not happen, please adjust the test >script below and send it back along with the platform you are using - so I >can reproduce this behavior. > The 5 second commit problem still occurs. I don't run X on my Linux server therefore your test script will not work in my case (I think). I have attached a standard Tclhttpd starkit that has a file upload utility which saves files in a directory within the starkit. Click on the "Starkit File Upload" at the bottom of the main page. You can upload files and delete them. The file size of the starkit doesn't increase or the modify time change. If I kill the process the files I have uploaded are not saved. However if make the modification to mk4vfs.tcl in tclkit (line 264 if { $flush == 0 } { ) mentioned in my previous post everything is working as expected. Even the modification time on the starkit changes regardless if I upload a file or not. 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